Doghouse - just who do you know that's going to do the jobs the immigrants do with the skills or willingness needed?
There was a chap on the Beeb this morning. Employs 1000 people in Oldham baking biscuits and bread and has loads of immigrant workers because in mainland Europe they still routinely train people to be bakers in the public education system. He can't get skilled UK staff and presumably hasn't the resources or won't train them himself, is very happy with his euromix staff but voted out because he thinks the UK can decide things for itself.
On the continent, you have to produce an ID card to get a bank account, join a library, buy a train pass, sign up for electricity etc and, of course, health care. The chip tells them who your health care provider is and what services you are entitled to - eg options such as 4 bed, 2 bed or private ward. If the UK had that, the NHS would save a lot of money it doesn't currently recoup from EU visitors or the rest of the world.
The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world and yet has appalling poverty in some areas. It needs a major shift of attitude and collaboration between national and local government and relevant NGOs and the education system to improve equality of opportunity for all and not just for those already articulate enough to stand up for themselves in the face of mindless bureaucracy. Again, home affairs and local affairs are not an EU problem.
Last edited: 30 June 2016 22:23:27
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
I find it more shocking in Europe and the UK where we do have a social safety net - in theory.- but yes, in a country like the US it's frightening because they tend to have guns and nothing to lose and that was what I saw in Texas and New mexico in 1988 when we hadn't had the banking crisis and all this austerity.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Seems the Brits live in cloud cuckoo land, as has recently been pointed out. They want to cherry pick what's best for them. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Immigration is an issue, but it's not exactly the big issue. Under Brexit we could even end up with an immigration rise. All this data was freely available pre-referendum.
Well, we could put some of the folk on this forum up for PM, but such widely differing views, I agree, some people can be quite nasty! I joined Mumsnet, and was shocked, they dont temper the swearing because they say we are all adults. obelixx, what do you mean by "orderlies" in the NHS, there are no such things, did you mean Porters? I worked in the NHS for 40 plus years till I retired last year, (also private sector, Agencies, Nursing Homes) saw the good, the bad and the downright ugly! In the 70 and 80, on a private ward (NHS Hospital) "Tourists" mainly Americans coming over here for hip replacements, free. My last experiences, last year, folk coming over for treatment, sometimes saying their relatives were "on Holiday" or staying with them, taken ill, of course they will get emergency treatment free, I did not meet one who had any kind of insurance, theoreticaly, some would be invoiced for their care. We had patients come in, who were so sick, I dont know how they got them on a plane (or how the airlines permitted it) Whenever, I have flown abroad, only EU countires, if I didnt get my insurance with the package, the tour operator insisted on seeing the paperwork to prove I had some. I have worked, of course with some lovelly folk from the EU, but unfortunately, a lot, often agency staff, with a terrible command of the English language, who were only there for the money. It was only last year, they had to pass criterior for the language, which annoyed (of course) some of the guys from outside the EU because they DID have to take exams. It was often ridiculous, and downright dangerous, not allowed to complain, RACIST! Patients, especially elderly ones, could not understand what was being said to them. A a white british woman, I had racial abuse, from some of them, no-on for me to complain to, was just told I had to get on with them. Accompanied my Husband to Hospital a couple of weeks back, bearing in mind my working background even I had an almighty job to understand the Consultant!
Please, I know that no one on here is intentionally encouraging racism, but horrid things are happening. A friend who was born here and has lived here all her life (both her parents are GPs) was shouted at in the street the other day and told that she will "have to go back home now - immigrants out!!!" and this is not the only example.
It seems that a vociferous minority have taken the Brexit vote as validation of their racist views and are now not holding back from making their unpleasant and dangerous feelings known.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I agree Dove. I don't know if anyone saw the photo of the repellent moron with his racist T shirt in the news the other day. I won't repeat what it said and I don't know why he wasn't arrested - I thought incitement to racism was a criminal offence ? His family have disowned him.
It makes you wonder how stupid some people are - did they think that's what they were voting for?
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Posts
Doghouse Riley, why are we living in our own little bubble? Is it not possible that it is you who is wrong?
All the major institutions, BOE, other world governments etc., etc. advised us to stay.
The chief BREXITEERS: Putin, Trump and N. Korea.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Doghouse - just who do you know that's going to do the jobs the immigrants do with the skills or willingness needed?
There was a chap on the Beeb this morning. Employs 1000 people in Oldham baking biscuits and bread and has loads of immigrant workers because in mainland Europe they still routinely train people to be bakers in the public education system. He can't get skilled UK staff and presumably hasn't the resources or won't train them himself, is very happy with his euromix staff but voted out because he thinks the UK can decide things for itself.
On the continent, you have to produce an ID card to get a bank account, join a library, buy a train pass, sign up for electricity etc and, of course, health care. The chip tells them who your health care provider is and what services you are entitled to - eg options such as 4 bed, 2 bed or private ward. If the UK had that, the NHS would save a lot of money it doesn't currently recoup from EU visitors or the rest of the world.
The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world and yet has appalling poverty in some areas. It needs a major shift of attitude and collaboration between national and local government and relevant NGOs and the education system to improve equality of opportunity for all and not just for those already articulate enough to stand up for themselves in the face of mindless bureaucracy. Again, home affairs and local affairs are not an EU problem.
Last edited: 30 June 2016 22:23:27
I find it more shocking in Europe and the UK where we do have a social safety net - in theory.- but yes, in a country like the US it's frightening because they tend to have guns and nothing to lose and that was what I saw in Texas and New mexico in 1988 when we hadn't had the banking crisis and all this austerity.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11190269/If-EU-migration-is-the-problem-Switzerland-and-Norway-are-not-the-answer.html
Seems the Brits live in cloud cuckoo land, as has recently been pointed out. They want to cherry pick what's best for them. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Immigration is an issue, but it's not exactly the big issue. Under Brexit we could even end up with an immigration rise. All this data was freely available pre-referendum.
Love that idea Muddle-up.
Do you want to be PM?
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Well, we could put some of the folk on this forum up for PM, but such widely differing views, I agree, some people can be quite nasty! I joined Mumsnet, and was shocked, they dont temper the swearing because they say we are all adults. obelixx, what do you mean by "orderlies" in the NHS, there are no such things, did you mean Porters? I worked in the NHS for 40 plus years till I retired last year, (also private sector, Agencies, Nursing Homes) saw the good, the bad and the downright ugly! In the 70 and 80, on a private ward (NHS Hospital) "Tourists" mainly Americans coming over here for hip replacements, free. My last experiences, last year, folk coming over for treatment, sometimes saying their relatives were "on Holiday" or staying with them, taken ill, of course they will get emergency treatment free, I did not meet one who had any kind of insurance, theoreticaly, some would be invoiced for their care. We had patients come in, who were so sick, I dont know how they got them on a plane (or how the airlines permitted it) Whenever, I have flown abroad, only EU countires, if I didnt get my insurance with the package, the tour operator insisted on seeing the paperwork to prove I had some. I have worked, of course with some lovelly folk from the EU, but unfortunately, a lot, often agency staff, with a terrible command of the English language, who were only there for the money. It was only last year, they had to pass criterior for the language, which annoyed (of course) some of the guys from outside the EU because they DID have to take exams. It was often ridiculous, and downright dangerous, not allowed to complain, RACIST! Patients, especially elderly ones, could not understand what was being said to them. A a white british woman, I had racial abuse, from some of them, no-on for me to complain to, was just told I had to get on with them. Accompanied my Husband to Hospital a couple of weeks back, bearing in mind my working background even I had an almighty job to understand the Consultant!
Please, I know that no one on here is intentionally encouraging racism, but horrid things are happening. A friend who was born here and has lived here all her life (both her parents are GPs) was shouted at in the street the other day and told that she will "have to go back home now - immigrants out!!!"
and this is not the only example.
It seems that a vociferous minority have taken the Brexit vote as validation of their racist views and are now not holding back from making their unpleasant and dangerous feelings known.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Well said Dove.
I am increasingly worried about a rising tide of intolerance of all types in this country, many of them nothing to do with BREXIT.
Have we forgotten the lessons from history?
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
I agree Dove. I don't know if anyone saw the photo of the repellent moron with his racist T shirt in the news the other day. I won't repeat what it said and I don't know why he wasn't arrested - I thought incitement to racism was a criminal offence ? His family have disowned him.
It makes you wonder how stupid some people are - did they think that's what they were voting for?
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Today of all days we should remember the importance of nations working together to share common goals and for the common good.
When I hear Farage forecasting a Europe of independent nation states it horrifies me - look what happened when that was the case!!!
I think a lot of people forgot the reason the EU was founded in the first place
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.