Not to worry "SV" nothing is going to happen very quickly, a two year get out is quoted? by whom? they do not know and cannot forecast the length of time it will take to throw off all the shackles. Independence day or Black Thursday, what ever we call it is now a done deal, knee jerk reactions will not change anything. The one thing that has changed is Politics and the way they see the common sheep like voters they think us, we who vote a certain way because our forebears did so, they woke up on Friday morning to see they had been rumbled, we the sheep had brains. We saw through the lies false statements of fact that had no basis, we saw them pushing their own agenda for their own aggrandisement and turned our backs on them, I look forward to the next election to see if they did learn the lesson.
Meanwhile biting each other on the bottom because things did not go the way we wished will only lose us long term friends on this forum let us go back to what we know GARDENING.
It's in the treaty of Lisbon Frank. Any country that invokes the exit clause has 2 years to negotiate the get out. The EU naturally wants to get on with it while Boris wants to prevaricate and delay invoking the clause. Clearly a man gifted with planning foresight.
However, yes, you do now have to get on with it but I see Cornwall thinks it can get the same finding from Westminster that it received from the EU, there are calls in Northern Ireland for a united Ireland and a petition for London to become independent in order to stay in the EU has been started.
A reporter on the Beeb this morning spoke of people who'd said they'd voted Brexit a a protest, never expecting it would win.
Quite a lot of reality checks coming up.
As for the gardening - not raining for a change but very wet and soggy here so can't really go trampling on the soil or it will get too compacted so that leaves clearing up my work area and potting on previously made cuttings and divisions.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Hi Obelixx, True it is laid down in the Lisbon Treaty although it has not been tried yet, my bet is that in two or three years time people will be asking why are we still in the EU.
It has been a good couple of days up here in the North east another area that saw some EU funding but then the Government dumped a mass of refugees into a run down area with no work for the locals and a shortage of housing then watched as the Steel works closed down, the knee jerk happened, they have only themselves to blame.
Spending yesterday in my Daughters new garden was very relaxing even if we did get wet and had to retire into the new summer house for a short while as it passed over, we forgot it all as we lunched and talked, Gardens Obelixx are the best opiate in the world.
From what I'm hearing and reading, the 2 year timetable is anything but. It's 2 years from the time the formal request is put in by the UK government, oh - and it can be extended 'if necessary'. Who knows how long it will actually take.
If other EU countries also decide to have referendums (referenda?) during that period, and also vote Out, things in Brussels could become extremely complicated.
I am personally sad about the decision--I spent a lot of my childhood on the Continent because my father had a modern languages degree and we went with him for his job. All my life I have known that freedom of movement and community that being in Europe meant. I cannot imagine what the future can look like.
On other levels I also think that people were not very well informed, or rather, they did not know whom to trust, and there were a lot of very bad lies going about which, frankly, owed a great deal to poisonous and divisive rhetoric about the threat of EU immigration. I work in a field with a great many EU immigrants but I am more convinced by the arguments that the UK gets more (financially speaking) from the EU than it pays in, over many areas.
I also can't see how in economic terms as a country we can recover from the situation we now find ourselves in. If the UK carries on trading with European partners then it will inevitably be subjected to EU laws. The pound will remain weak against the euro. Trade and travel will become hugely more difficult and our economy was already struggling. Frankly, I'm both scared and distressed by the bitter divisions this has created, especially as it seems to me that it need never have reached such a crisis.
I believe in democracy, but I don't think this decision was made with the benefit of true facts--through no fault of Brexiteers.
I am personally sad about the decision--I spent a lot of my childhood on the Continent because my father had a modern languages degree and we went with him for his job. All my life I have known that freedom of movement and community that being in Europe meant. I cannot imagine what the future can look like.
On other levels I also think that people were not very well informed, or rather, they did not know whom to trust, and there were a lot of very bad lies going about which, frankly, owed a great deal to poisonous and divisive rhetoric about the threat of EU immigration. I work in a field with a great many EU immigrants but I am more convinced by the arguments that the UK gets more (financially speaking) from the EU than it pays in, over many areas.
I also can't see how in economic terms as a country we can recover from the situation we now find ourselves in. If the UK carries on trading with European partners then it will inevitably be subjected to EU laws. The pound will remain weak against the euro. Trade and travel will become hugely more difficult and our economy was already struggling. Frankly, I'm both scared and distressed by the bitter divisions this has created, especially as it seems to me that it need never have reached such a crisis.
I believe in democracy, but I don't think this decision was made with the benefit of true facts--through no fault of Brexiteers.
I agree that we were not well informed - it was all scare tactics, soundbites and opinions that were unsupported by facts - I still haven't much clue why being in the EU helps our businesses. I also agree that we did not know who to trust. Nigel Lawson, for, Brexit, is a climate change denier, BoJo is dodgy, while Cameron thinks that Britain is not overcrowded, so they are both completely impossible for me to take seriously.
As for travel, we will need a passport, but is that really such a problem?
And we will be subject to EU laws, but aren't we already?
The pound is slightly weaker, but that makes our exports cheaper and more competitive.
We will still continue to trade with the EU, just as we trade with China, Japan, USA and everyone else. The stock market doesn't seem too bothered - the FTSE is only down 3% after its knee-jerk early fall, so I don't see any reason to be greatly concerned.
Have you heard of TTIF and CETA? Check them out and then see what "free trade" can mean to your job security and working conditions and the things you will be eating.
As Obama said, the USA (320 million with lousy employment rights, growth hormones in their meat and GM food crops) is going to concentrate on negotiating its deal with the EU - 350 million - and will then have the luxury of imposing what it likes on a teeny UK market of about 64 million.
Globalization in its worst form and by the back door.
To counteract it the UK needs to improve education and invest in technology and training to produce a skilled work force making added value products that can compete with China, India, South Korea who will now be interested in Europe more than UK.
It would be great if you can pull it off but don't expect any patience form the EU. They have a lot to fix themselves now without being distracted by what they are bound to see as unreasonable UK divorce terms.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
I see the force of your arguments. But in the field where I work, we receive hundreds of millions of funding from EU grant bodies annually. Without it we cannot be internationally competitive any more. Many of my colleagues are from the EU and will have to face an extended period of uncertainty, perhaps even losing their jobs. (I am hoping this outcome is unlikely). What is definite though is that the industry I am in will become uncompetitive and top experts will go to other countries where they will be able to obtain large grants.
So far as I can see, most of the legislation that has protected my rights, personally in the last few years (e.g. maternity leave), has been passed under the EU and it has defended human rights more vigorously than this country's government.
And, although the pound has recovered somewhat this morning, international economists are predicting a further 10% fall. This is only good news to a very limited extent--our economy has taken a huge beating and things look set to get worse. I agree that these are all predictions, so we will have to see what happens. Perhaps indeed as a nation we were that desperate that a leap in the dark looked preferable to the status quo. I just don't know. I sincerely hope the worst predictions do not come to pass.
Posts
Not to worry "SV" nothing is going to happen very quickly, a two year get out is quoted? by whom? they do not know and cannot forecast the length of time it will take to throw off all the shackles. Independence day or Black Thursday, what ever we call it is now a done deal, knee jerk reactions will not change anything. The one thing that has changed is Politics and the way they see the common sheep like voters they think us, we who vote a certain way because our forebears did so, they woke up on Friday morning to see they had been rumbled, we the sheep had brains. We saw through the lies false statements of fact that had no basis, we saw them pushing their own agenda for their own aggrandisement and turned our backs on them, I look forward to the next election to see if they did learn the lesson.
Meanwhile biting each other on the bottom because things did not go the way we wished will only lose us long term friends on this forum let us go back to what we know GARDENING.
Frank.
It's in the treaty of Lisbon Frank. Any country that invokes the exit clause has 2 years to negotiate the get out. The EU naturally wants to get on with it while Boris wants to prevaricate and delay invoking the clause. Clearly a man gifted with planning foresight.
However, yes, you do now have to get on with it but I see Cornwall thinks it can get the same finding from Westminster that it received from the EU, there are calls in Northern Ireland for a united Ireland and a petition for London to become independent in order to stay in the EU has been started.
A reporter on the Beeb this morning spoke of people who'd said they'd voted Brexit a a protest, never expecting it would win.
Quite a lot of reality checks coming up.
As for the gardening - not raining for a change but very wet and soggy here so can't really go trampling on the soil or it will get too compacted so that leaves clearing up my work area and potting on previously made cuttings and divisions.
Hi Obelixx, True it is laid down in the Lisbon Treaty although it has not been tried yet, my bet is that in two or three years time people will be asking why are we still in the EU.
It has been a good couple of days up here in the North east another area that saw some EU funding but then the Government dumped a mass of refugees into a run down area with no work for the locals and a shortage of housing then watched as the Steel works closed down, the knee jerk happened, they have only themselves to blame.
Spending yesterday in my Daughters new garden was very relaxing even if we did get wet and had to retire into the new summer house for a short while as it passed over, we forgot it all as we lunched and talked, Gardens Obelixx are the best opiate in the world.
Frank.
From what I'm hearing and reading, the 2 year timetable is anything but. It's 2 years from the time the formal request is put in by the UK government, oh - and it can be extended 'if necessary'. Who knows how long it will actually take.
If other EU countries also decide to have referendums (referenda?) during that period, and also vote Out, things in Brussels could become extremely complicated.
I am personally sad about the decision--I spent a lot of my childhood on the Continent because my father had a modern languages degree and we went with him for his job. All my life I have known that freedom of movement and community that being in Europe meant. I cannot imagine what the future can look like.
On other levels I also think that people were not very well informed, or rather, they did not know whom to trust, and there were a lot of very bad lies going about which, frankly, owed a great deal to poisonous and divisive rhetoric about the threat of EU immigration. I work in a field with a great many EU immigrants but I am more convinced by the arguments that the UK gets more (financially speaking) from the EU than it pays in, over many areas.
I also can't see how in economic terms as a country we can recover from the situation we now find ourselves in. If the UK carries on trading with European partners then it will inevitably be subjected to EU laws. The pound will remain weak against the euro. Trade and travel will become hugely more difficult and our economy was already struggling. Frankly, I'm both scared and distressed by the bitter divisions this has created, especially as it seems to me that it need never have reached such a crisis.
I believe in democracy, but I don't think this decision was made with the benefit of true facts--through no fault of Brexiteers.
I agree that we were not well informed - it was all scare tactics, soundbites and opinions that were unsupported by facts - I still haven't much clue why being in the EU helps our businesses. I also agree that we did not know who to trust. Nigel Lawson, for, Brexit, is a climate change denier, BoJo is dodgy, while Cameron thinks that Britain is not overcrowded, so they are both completely impossible for me to take seriously.
As for travel, we will need a passport, but is that really such a problem?
And we will be subject to EU laws, but aren't we already?
The pound is slightly weaker, but that makes our exports cheaper and more competitive.
We will still continue to trade with the EU, just as we trade with China, Japan, USA and everyone else. The stock market doesn't seem too bothered - the FTSE is only down 3% after its knee-jerk early fall, so I don't see any reason to be greatly concerned.
Last edited: 25 June 2016 12:33:54
Have you heard of TTIF and CETA? Check them out and then see what "free trade" can mean to your job security and working conditions and the things you will be eating.
As Obama said, the USA (320 million with lousy employment rights, growth hormones in their meat and GM food crops) is going to concentrate on negotiating its deal with the EU - 350 million - and will then have the luxury of imposing what it likes on a teeny UK market of about 64 million.
Globalization in its worst form and by the back door.
To counteract it the UK needs to improve education and invest in technology and training to produce a skilled work force making added value products that can compete with China, India, South Korea who will now be interested in Europe more than UK.
It would be great if you can pull it off but don't expect any patience form the EU. They have a lot to fix themselves now without being distracted by what they are bound to see as unreasonable UK divorce terms.
I see the force of your arguments. But in the field where I work, we receive hundreds of millions of funding from EU grant bodies annually. Without it we cannot be internationally competitive any more. Many of my colleagues are from the EU and will have to face an extended period of uncertainty, perhaps even losing their jobs. (I am hoping this outcome is unlikely). What is definite though is that the industry I am in will become uncompetitive and top experts will go to other countries where they will be able to obtain large grants.
So far as I can see, most of the legislation that has protected my rights, personally in the last few years (e.g. maternity leave), has been passed under the EU and it has defended human rights more vigorously than this country's government.
And, although the pound has recovered somewhat this morning, international economists are predicting a further 10% fall. This is only good news to a very limited extent--our economy has taken a huge beating and things look set to get worse. I agree that these are all predictions, so we will have to see what happens. Perhaps indeed as a nation we were that desperate that a leap in the dark looked preferable to the status quo. I just don't know. I sincerely hope the worst predictions do not come to pass.
Sorry, Ladybird, I'm not a trained economist, but this does not look 'back to normal' in any sense to me:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/currency
Sorry, didnt see that the post was from Doghouse.