The NHS is stretched because it is badly run, does not check IDs of people it treats so there is health tourism but, most of all, because too many people don't take responsibility for their own health - good diet, moderate drinking, not smoking, regular exercise - and then expect the NHS to pick up the pieces. Obesity and late onset diabetes are costing the NHS a fortune to treat avoidable symptoms and complications.
The population is aging so there are more degenerative diseases and creaking joints to treat but non existent or inadequate support services in the community to allow people to go home once treated so NHS beds get blocked and queues and waiting times increase.
Do you know how NHS staff dread the weekend? All those binge drinkers coming in with injuries and hangovers and alcohol driven strops and violence? I'm sure health care for all and free at the point of delivery was not intended to support the willfully feckless who consume too great a percentage of limited resources.
Immigration is a natural consequence of a successful economy, especially when compared to so many war or famine torn parts of the world. Apart from a negligible number of Romanies escaping abject poverty at home, the vast majority of EU migrants are working - often doing jobs UK nationals can't or won't do - and thus generating wealth and paying taxes and should be welcome. There ought to be a system for ensuring undesirables - criminals, sex offenders etc - don't take up residence in the UK but since the UK won't have an ID card and registration you have no recourse.
What the UK will have difficulty controlling is the illegal immigrants who will be unleashed when Calais decides to stop spending anymore money in containing them on their side of the Channel. The UK has an extensive and unpatrollable coastline and there will always be some unscrupulous Brits who will exploit illegals and let them loose in a quiet corner or worse, using them as slave or indentured labour to pay their passage.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Maybe it is because we understand what we are losing, and don't want to live in an inward looking country, where xenophobes rule the roost.
I worked for the NHS for over 30 years, and it would not be there, if were not for foreign staff. The uncertainty caused by recent events, will certainly not make staff recruitment any easier.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
Thanks Obs for your contribution to this thread. Like you, I think it's so foolish not to consider those who - by taking advantage of the NHS when their troubles are self-inflicted - are a part of the cause of things being the way they are.
I'm sure that when the NHS was inaugurated it was a mistake not to allow for the fact that people would live longer as a result of better medical treatments and so on, but, as the saying goes "hindsight's a wonderful thing", However, I don't imagine for a moment that it could have been anticipated that people would actually demand things like cosmetic surgery to be available on the NHS and that the system would be abused in the way it now seems to be by some people.
When the population is increasing due to migration by 300,000 per year it is bound to cause problems with resources. The reasons why those resources have been underfunded for decades is irrelevant to the situation we currently find ourselves in. "We are where we are" as they say.
None of the people (I don't mean people on this board) who seem to favour uncontrolled immigration have every answered the question of how we cope with such massive increases year on year. Even if the money was made available for the extra housing, schooling, hospitals and GPs, how long would it take to build the required infrastructure?
The simple reality is that there are areas where these resources are stretched to near breaking point and additional resources can't be brought into place overnight. A while ago, on something like Question Time, it was said that the additional children requiring school places only equated to something like 1 additional child per class, per school. That may be the case, but who is going to move the families around the country to ensure even distribution? If there was ever the use of a meaningless statistic for political purpose that had to be it.
Obelixx .... I can't speak for everywhere, but all the hospitals I've worked in have rigorously followed the NHS Overseas Visitors legislation, and have collected all income due from people not entitled to free NHS treatment.
The most indignant group were often people who used to live here, and expected that they could pop back from their "place in the sun" for the NHS to sort out their health problems. They were most unhappy when told they would be charged.
Gardener and beekeeper in beautiful Scottish Borders
A single bee creates just one twelfth of a teaspoon of honey in her lifetime
Perhaps you live in an efficient NHS Bee witched (great tag) as they don't all check and don't all recoup costs but yes, I do know about some of the sun followers.
I don't think the UK does joined up thinking about public services and resources very well. There are local and county councils who take note of birth rates and plan ahead to provide school places and others, less efficient, who don't. Apart from the railway building boom (private enterprise) in the Victorian era and the earlier canal systems, the UK has always lagged behind others in providing centrally funded transport infrastructure be it road, rail or air. Recent projects to improve road communication in South Wales have been done using EU structural funds and not because of wise forethought by local politicians or Whitehall mandarins.
All too often local politics and dogma get in the way of good service provision and decisions about what services get which funds depend on fickle personal beliefs and agendas - postcode lottery - rather than well considered policies developed for the long term good. That has nothing to do with the EU.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
A fact about the NHS , my sister in law is a senior midwife team leader and a for a number of years now they deal with visitors to this country who arrive on a 6 months visitors visa just so they can have there baby delivered hear and there NHS trust does not bother about about recouping the cost !
A friends wife recently had a medical problem in Spain before the Hospital would carry on the husband had to pay with his credit cards !
Thats strange my first post did not appear though it was there this morning, so the second one didnt make sense. Basically, I said my youngest Daughter DID vote, (out) she is 24, and that I was listening to radio 4, yesterday, I think it was Womans Hour, part way thru, some guy saying that 22% of people surveyed didnt understand what they were voting for, and didnt listen to the experts THATS what I put I thought was insulting, and who are these people who took part in this survey?
From reading these posts I've lost respect for one or two people. I'm not quoting I hate the tit for tat and name calling..read back, its there. Its a shame. I'm wondering how many people on here would consider themselves poor....I mean will never afford to buy a home, havent had a holiday in twenty years and have always worked full time.....few I doubt, its inequality and lack of accountability that lost this vote. Those that had nothing had nothing to lose. English homelessness has gone up by 54% since 2010.
Posts
I haven't posted anywhere for a few weeks because I know I couldn't keep off this thread
Well all I can say is I've got plenty done in the garden
Last edited: 30 June 2016 19:02:36
The NHS is stretched because it is badly run, does not check IDs of people it treats so there is health tourism but, most of all, because too many people don't take responsibility for their own health - good diet, moderate drinking, not smoking, regular exercise - and then expect the NHS to pick up the pieces. Obesity and late onset diabetes are costing the NHS a fortune to treat avoidable symptoms and complications.
The population is aging so there are more degenerative diseases and creaking joints to treat but non existent or inadequate support services in the community to allow people to go home once treated so NHS beds get blocked and queues and waiting times increase.
Do you know how NHS staff dread the weekend? All those binge drinkers coming in with injuries and hangovers and alcohol driven strops and violence? I'm sure health care for all and free at the point of delivery was not intended to support the willfully feckless who consume too great a percentage of limited resources.
Immigration is a natural consequence of a successful economy, especially when compared to so many war or famine torn parts of the world. Apart from a negligible number of Romanies escaping abject poverty at home, the vast majority of EU migrants are working - often doing jobs UK nationals can't or won't do - and thus generating wealth and paying taxes and should be welcome. There ought to be a system for ensuring undesirables - criminals, sex offenders etc - don't take up residence in the UK but since the UK won't have an ID card and registration you have no recourse.
What the UK will have difficulty controlling is the illegal immigrants who will be unleashed when Calais decides to stop spending anymore money in containing them on their side of the Channel. The UK has an extensive and unpatrollable coastline and there will always be some unscrupulous Brits who will exploit illegals and let them loose in a quiet corner or worse, using them as slave or indentured labour to pay their passage.
Sorry KEF., can't stop myself!
Bad losers are we?
Maybe it is because we understand what we are losing, and don't want to live in an inward looking country, where xenophobes rule the roost.
I worked for the NHS for over 30 years, and it would not be there, if were not for foreign staff. The uncertainty caused by recent events, will certainly not make staff recruitment any easier.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Thanks Obs for your contribution to this thread. Like you, I think it's so foolish not to consider those who - by taking advantage of the NHS when their troubles are self-inflicted - are a part of the cause of things being the way they are.
I'm sure that when the NHS was inaugurated it was a mistake not to allow for the fact that people would live longer as a result of better medical treatments and so on, but, as the saying goes "hindsight's a wonderful thing", However, I don't imagine for a moment that it could have been anticipated that people would actually demand things like cosmetic surgery to be available on the NHS and that the system would be abused in the way it now seems to be by some people.
When the population is increasing due to migration by 300,000 per year it is bound to cause problems with resources. The reasons why those resources have been underfunded for decades is irrelevant to the situation we currently find ourselves in. "We are where we are" as they say.
None of the people (I don't mean people on this board) who seem to favour uncontrolled immigration have every answered the question of how we cope with such massive increases year on year. Even if the money was made available for the extra housing, schooling, hospitals and GPs, how long would it take to build the required infrastructure?
The simple reality is that there are areas where these resources are stretched to near breaking point and additional resources can't be brought into place overnight. A while ago, on something like Question Time, it was said that the additional children requiring school places only equated to something like 1 additional child per class, per school. That may be the case, but who is going to move the families around the country to ensure even distribution? If there was ever the use of a meaningless statistic for political purpose that had to be it.
Obelixx .... I can't speak for everywhere, but all the hospitals I've worked in have rigorously followed the NHS Overseas Visitors legislation, and have collected all income due from people not entitled to free NHS treatment.
The most indignant group were often people who used to live here, and expected that they could pop back from their "place in the sun" for the NHS to sort out their health problems. They were most unhappy when told they would be charged.
A single bee creates just one twelfth of a teaspoon of honey in her lifetime
Perhaps you live in an efficient NHS Bee witched (great tag) as they don't all check and don't all recoup costs but yes, I do know about some of the sun followers.
KT53 - I am not advocating uncontrolled immigration. Far from it but maybe you should read this - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-immigration-immigrants-jobs-brexit-remain-what-happens-unemployment-a7091566.html
I don't think the UK does joined up thinking about public services and resources very well. There are local and county councils who take note of birth rates and plan ahead to provide school places and others, less efficient, who don't. Apart from the railway building boom (private enterprise) in the Victorian era and the earlier canal systems, the UK has always lagged behind others in providing centrally funded transport infrastructure be it road, rail or air. Recent projects to improve road communication in South Wales have been done using EU structural funds and not because of wise forethought by local politicians or Whitehall mandarins.
All too often local politics and dogma get in the way of good service provision and decisions about what services get which funds depend on fickle personal beliefs and agendas - postcode lottery - rather than well considered policies developed for the long term good. That has nothing to do with the EU.
A fact about the NHS , my sister in law is a senior midwife team leader and a for a number of years now they deal with visitors to this country who arrive on a 6 months visitors visa just so they can have there baby delivered hear and there NHS trust does not bother about about recouping the cost !
A friends wife recently had a medical problem in Spain before the Hospital would carry on the husband had to pay with his credit cards !
Thats strange my first post did not appear though it was there this morning, so the second one didnt make sense. Basically, I said my youngest Daughter DID vote, (out) she is 24, and that I was listening to radio 4, yesterday, I think it was Womans Hour, part way thru, some guy saying that 22% of people surveyed didnt understand what they were voting for, and didnt listen to the experts THATS what I put I thought was insulting, and who are these people who took part in this survey?
From reading these posts I've lost respect for one or two people. I'm not quoting I hate the tit for tat and name calling..read back, its there. Its a shame. I'm wondering how many people on here would consider themselves poor....I mean will never afford to buy a home, havent had a holiday in twenty years and have always worked full time.....few I doubt, its inequality and lack of accountability that lost this vote. Those that had nothing had nothing to lose. English homelessness has gone up by 54% since 2010.