@Mr. Vine Eye, you have got lots planned! You inspired me to readjust and move plants around. Need a peaceful day when i can be on my own in garden and plan. Have been very busy at work and home. Something to look forward to do in winter months.
Everytime I see your malvern hills, I wish I could have one too and train it so neatly. Unfortunately I dont have anywhere which doesnt come in path and rose will have thorns.
I have a couple of spaces in which I want dark red roses. I've spent so much time been looking at so many different roses, I think i've confused myself to a standstill. I am now thinking I will go with 1 x Munstead Wood for 1 location and a group of 3 x Francis Debreuil for t'other. Any thoughts or comments on these selections?, I think I recall reading somewhere deep in this thread that MW can be a bit of a PITA? Are there any issues or difficulties associated with group planting?. Is it wise or would they crowd each other causing ventilation issue leading to disease problems? This rose novice would really appreciate your valued inputs on this.
@owd potter Munstead Wood has gorgeous, rich blooms and a great scent, but it is thorny and fairly inelegant/wayward in habit. As it’s a smallish bush, it does look much better planted in a group of three, more impactful and it kind of helps to compensate for it’s sometimes weird growth habit. David Austin recommends planting his roses in threes, so long as you space them correctly in a triangle, it merges into one larger rose and you shouldn’t have any additional disease problems. Do give the group some space around it to breathe, though.
The rose sold in commerce as Francis Dubreuil is widely recognised as, in reality, not the tea rose of that name, but the old Kordes hybrid tea ‘Barcelona’, so I’m assuming it has a more upright habit and I am not sure if that would work as a threesome, maybe better as a single specimen. But I don’t know that for sure. Still, my instinct would be to say, if you are happy with your two choices, do it the other way around - 3 x MW and I x FD.
I have a FD on order, but also the red HT Deep Secret, which a few on this thread have and it gets rave reviews. I am looking forward to both of those, but suspect Deep Secret will be slightly more easy care, so maybe have a look at that one and see what you think.
Here is my Munstead Wood in summer, planted in a threesome, spaced 50cm apart. Just one would get lost in this busy border:
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Everytime I see your malvern hills, I wish I could have one too and train it so neatly. Unfortunately I dont have anywhere which doesnt come in path and rose will have thorns.
Malvern Hills is actually fairly low on thorns. I think it’s great, flowered non-stop this year. There’s a lovely musky scent that fills the air when it’s in bloom. So easy to train with the flexible stems. Was definitely the right pick for this spot.
Thanks @Nollie that's a great help. I would love to take on your suggestion and plant a group of 3 MW as I really like the dark red colour but I cannot really reverse the locations. That is, put the MW where I intended the FD, and vice versa. The location where I want MW is approx 900x900mm, between other established plantings, so although that space should be sufficient to plant a group triangulated at 500 centres, would it be too much of a squeeze to provide breathing space around them? I will take a look at your other suggestion, deep secret, but I do love the colour of MW. I think it may be you that has another dark red rose called the prince?, but I cannot seem to find this for sale by any of the popular suppliers.
I think that’s too tight for 3 MW @owd potter, once fully grown, each rose will radiate out around 50cm from the planting point, so in theory you would need 150 x 150cm. Roses don’t much like their space invaded by roots or overhung by other plants, but it does depend on what you have planted around. If it’s lowish, non-demanding perennials you might just get away with it, especially as MW is fairly slow growing (at least it is for me) having reached a maximum height and diameter per plant of 70cm in 3 years.
You might have noticed mine in the above photo are looking rather crowded, because the perennials got too large and the roses did suffer from really bad blackspot and a bit of cane dieback later on as a result. I am just about to take out those lusty, large-leaved Salvia Guarantica behind them and plant something of a more modest scale instead.
Yes I do have The Prince, new this year. The blooms are a fabulous deep red with purple tones, not unlike a taller MW, but it has delicate foliage shredded by high wind and rain, so needs a warm, sheltered site. It was fairly wimpy to begin with but had strengthened and bushed out well. Mine is in a pot and I moved it to a very protected location against a stone wall and under my roof overhang, where it is happy and healthy. It’s an old, out of patent Austin, mostly only available from European nurseries, but they do ship to the UK if you are interested.
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Thanks @Nollie, as I suspected. 1 x MW it is then for that location, and I'll look out for something else for the 2nd location. Many thanks for your time and input Owd
You’re welcome, but not sure that was much help in the end @owd potter. As I said, I don’t really know the habit of Francis Dubreuil/Barcelona as I don’t have it (yet!) or whether it would work planted in a three. I was reluctant to tag @Marlorena as I understand she is rather busy/stressed just now, but she does have it so maybe could spare a minute to let us know? sorry M! I guess I just think of shrub threesomes, but does anyone else plant HTs in threes?
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
So nice to still see so many blooms in all your gardens. I'm really going to miss my evenings in the garden. Was a great de-stresser after work to potter about for a few hours. I did manage to get some photos after work today and in between the torrential downpours.
Posts
Everytime I see your malvern hills, I wish I could have one too and train it so neatly. Unfortunately I dont have anywhere which doesnt come in path and rose will have thorns.
I've spent so much time been looking at so many different roses, I think i've confused myself to a standstill.
I am now thinking I will go with 1 x Munstead Wood for 1 location and a group of 3 x Francis Debreuil for t'other.
Any thoughts or comments on these selections?, I think I recall reading somewhere deep in this thread that MW can be a bit of a PITA?
Are there any issues or difficulties associated with group planting?. Is it wise or would they crowd each other causing ventilation issue leading to disease problems?
This rose novice would really appreciate your valued inputs on this.
The rose sold in commerce as Francis Dubreuil is widely recognised as, in reality, not the tea rose of that name, but the old Kordes hybrid tea ‘Barcelona’, so I’m assuming it has a more upright habit and I am not sure if that would work as a threesome, maybe better as a single specimen. But I don’t know that for sure. Still, my instinct would be to say, if you are happy with your two choices, do it the other way around - 3 x MW and I x FD.
I have a FD on order, but also the red HT Deep Secret, which a few on this thread have and it gets rave reviews. I am looking forward to both of those, but suspect Deep Secret will be slightly more easy care, so maybe have a look at that one and see what you think.
Here is my Munstead Wood in summer, planted in a threesome, spaced 50cm apart. Just one would get lost in this busy border:
I would love to take on your suggestion and plant a group of 3 MW as I really like the dark red colour but I cannot really reverse the locations. That is, put the MW where I intended the FD, and vice versa.
The location where I want MW is approx 900x900mm, between other established plantings, so although that space should be sufficient to plant a group triangulated at 500 centres, would it be too much of a squeeze to provide breathing space around them?
I will take a look at your other suggestion, deep secret, but I do love the colour of MW.
I think it may be you that has another dark red rose called the prince?, but I cannot seem to find this for sale by any of the popular suppliers.
You might have noticed mine in the above photo are looking rather crowded, because the perennials got too large and the roses did suffer from really bad blackspot and a bit of cane dieback later on as a result. I am just about to take out those lusty, large-leaved Salvia Guarantica behind them and plant something of a more modest scale instead.
Yes I do have The Prince, new this year. The blooms are a fabulous deep red with purple tones, not unlike a taller MW, but it has delicate foliage shredded by high wind and rain, so needs a warm, sheltered site. It was fairly wimpy to begin with but had strengthened and bushed out well. Mine is in a pot and I moved it to a very protected location against a stone wall and under my roof overhang, where it is happy and healthy. It’s an old, out of patent Austin, mostly only available from European nurseries, but they do ship to the UK if you are interested.
as I suspected.
1 x MW it is then for that location, and I'll look out for something else for the 2nd location.
Many thanks for your time and input
Owd
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