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  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    Are you saying all human nature is nurture and nothing to do with nature - there is nothing in the genetic make-up of a person that bends them this way or that?
    Everyone (!) knows the corraling tendencies of sheep dogs (been mentioned here) - even if taken out of a farm environment at birth. Is that then genetic? Or maybe it's a fable.

    If Staffies are cuddly, why do they kill? Isn't the problem that if the dog does attack for whatever reason, it's pretty difficult to stop it. Maybe it's a perception thing, but I think that I'd rather try to separate a labrador from something it was attacking, than a staffie.
    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • LG_LG_ Posts: 4,360
    The first face transplant was on someone who had been attacked by a Labrador. Just saying. 
    'If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.'
    - Cicero
  • I was laughing at the thought of taking a chew away from my wee sookie labrador who got sacked from the huntin' shootin' fishin' team for being too gentle and wanting to cuddle! 🤣
  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    Now there's an odd one. Would you class Putin as violent? Dangerous? Maybe his parents loved him and he had a good up bringing, but being a human ar*e doesn't mean you have to be physically involved in the act itself.
    Luckily dogs don't use proxies like that - I now have an image of a Chihuahua ordering around a pack of attack dogs.

    I don't dispute that any dog (like any human) is capable of doing 'stuff' - but did you read the list of human deaths and the dogs involved? It's the proportion isn't it?
    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    steveTu said:
    Are you saying all human nature is nurture and nothing to do with nature - there is nothing in the genetic make-up of a person that bends them this way or that?
    My wife is very well educated in psychology and still won't take a stance on the nature vs nurture debate. My two kids can be like chalk and cheese and I'd be amazed if their slightly different start to life made such a difference but who knows how they'll turn out in the long run. 
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    edited September 2023
    @wild edges
    It's interesting eh? Ditto with our two kids - totally different, but both ended up with similar mental issues. Maybe I shouldn't have locked them under the stairs so often. But if you accept dog traits and that breeding for physical and temperamental attributes works, then presumably humans are also affected by breeding? Chickens, horses, efflumps, swans...breeding and temperament.
    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • JennyJJennyJ Posts: 10,576
    The general theme of that list tends to be that unprovoked attacks on adults (often seems to be people who are, or who a dog might perceive to be, vulnerable in some way) seem to be mostly those aggressive types of breed. 
    A small dog can kill a small person, but surely a baby or small child should never be left alone with any dog. Isn't that just common sense, or is it me being over-cautious as a person who's always been nervous of dogs?
    The fault is usually with owners who can't or won't keep their dogs under control, and there are people who would train whatever dog they had to behave in an aggressive way, but it's harder to regulate the owners than to ban particular types of dog so that's the way it will most likely go.
    Doncaster, South Yorkshire. Soil type: sandy, well-drained
  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    But the dogs are bred to be violent.  Read this - it's short - https://www.pethealthnetwork.com/dog-health/dog-breeds/staffordshire-bull-terrier
    ...then go to the Wiki of deaths by dog and look for Staff. What do you see? Apparently, these dogs were bread NOT to attack their owners (by putting down those that did!) - but were bred for violence.
    I honestly don't dispute that a lot of the attacks are potentially human driven - ie the human not controlling the dog - but as  I said initially, given that it would be impossible to impose human vetting - how can you stop the dogs (who seem to be involved in the majority of dog attack deaths) doing what they've been bred to do?


    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    JennyJ said:
    A small dog can kill a small person, but surely a baby or small child should never be left alone with any dog. Isn't that just common sense, or is it me being over-cautious as a person who's always been nervous of dogs?
    It's not just you. My sister is a paediatric nurse and always advises never to leave kids alone with a dog even for a second. She's seen the injuries. It's confirmation bias to a certain extent as her experience will always be at the bad end of the scale due to the nature of her job but she doesn't wrap her kids in cotton wool either.
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
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