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  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    steveTu said:
    Electric cars. There is a program on BBC about them tonight.
    I predict charge wars. Sounds like a Womack & Womack song....
    I currently have space to charge two cars on a drive. As long as the cars have a suitable range, then I have no issue. But how does this work for people who live in terraced houses, flats etc or anywhere without a dedicated private hard standing area? When I lived in a terraced place back in the 90's, it was a rarity to park even close to my house - so even if my terraced place had a charge point fitted - I could never have guaranteed parking close enough to use it.
    If my local garage replaced all the current fossil pumps with electric charge points, then that model still doesn't work does it? I presume my garage has 8 pumps because, typically, they use just under that in peak daily hours. That works on what, a 5-10 minute fill? How does that work for a 30 minute+ charge?

    It will be interesting to see what they make of it tonight.
    I assume the filling station model will have to change since cars can be charged at start and destination points so are unlikely to need a charge up during rush hour. I hope someone has a plan for keeping things viable and affordable during the change over. The profit margins for smaller stations are limited anyway so I expect they will be lost in favour of just sitting in a supermarket or coffee shop car park where there is ample space and infrastructure.

    All the people I know with electric cars barely drive the things. One neighbour drives the 300 metres to her kid's school, does a 20 point turn in the road and drives back again.I wish they'd concentrate on using the new tech to replace the high mileage vehicles, heavy polluters and public transport first.

    I've also seen cases in the USA where people have come home to find someone using their private charging point on their driveway. In theory this could work if you can set it as public (with restrictions) on an app and people pay to use it.

    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • KT53KT53 Posts: 9,016
    Thanks for the heads up about the programme @steveTu.  I think the vast majority of people, that is everybody other than those making the decisions, realise that electric cars are going to create massive issues for people living in terraced houses, flats, or simply with insufficient parking for all their cars.  At my sister-in-law's house there are 3 cars, and all needed on a daily basis.  One person is a builder, one works 40 miles from home and the other works shifts with no other way to get to work apart from driving. 
    Battery disposal is also going to become a bigger and bigger problem.   What did shock me was discovering that wind turbine blades can't be recycled, and the only way to dispose of them is landfill.  Not so green after all.
  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    How does someone charge at the start and destination points? 50% of dwellings potentially don't/can't have access to personal chargers. What about all those car parking areas for businesses - are they all going to be wired  (throughout my life I travelled by car to and from work - typically circa 100 mile round trips)? Imagine explainin that to your boss:
    '...I was here two hours early - honest - it just took me two hours to find a charge point...'
    ...and then getting home at some silly time at night, to find all the charge points are taken - what do you do then? Will houses without ready access to dedicated charge points be unsellable?

    And what is the impact also on roads and tyres? As isn't part of the issue with fossil vehicle pollution, the particles/dust from tyres and brakes. If the EV  weighs more, doesn't that potentially increase those (unless the EV uses more engine braking to slow the vehicle) - but the additional weight presumably must have an impact on the tyres and roads, irrespective of the brakes.

    I really thought that with Covid we'd realised we didn't have to move all the workforce to the work place (obviously some still have to travel) - that the work place could be anywhere for a large proportion. But it seems that the old model of shifting millions of people around on a daily basis is the way the gov wants us to go

    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • JennyJJennyJ Posts: 10,576
    edited July 2023
    Will people using public charge points in the evening/overnight do the right thing and go out to move their vehicle as soon as it's finished charging so that someone else can use the charge point? Nope, didn't think so. Worse than those who leave their car blocking a petrol pump and the exit route from the one behind while they do a load of shopping in the petrol station mini-supermarket.
    Doncaster, South Yorkshire. Soil type: sandy, well-drained
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    Of course if you live 40 miles from work and can charge the car at work for free then it really isn't a problem. Technically some people may be able to charge the car at work and use the spare electricity to power their house when they come home too. The ideal will be when cars can charge from solar during the day and then provide surplus power to houses and the grid at night to mitigate for the dropoff from solar going offline. A lot of energy infrastructure concerns are about flattening that peak in usage when people return from work and car storage will help with that.

    Wind turbine blade recycling seems to be less of a problem now too but I'm amazed that no one considered that when they made them.
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    How many businesses have converted their car parking to have charge points?
    It's ok to talk about solar, but as far as I know, that either still relies on a charge point being available - or - a car being able to be charged directly (which don't exist yet - and even they do, will presumably than add more to the weight of the car and complexity to its structure).
    How many fires have been caused by dodgy lithium batteries - what then happens with EVs constant recharging and accidents (damage to battery cells)? And what then the impact of all this tech on a vehicle that may need to be replaced after a simple bump rather than just a panel?

    Maybe they'll address some of this tonight. I just always feel that we move from one insane point to the next because circumstance drives it that way - nobody looks to the future and the potential impacts and tries to map a 'sensible'  route.


    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    steveTu said:
    How does someone charge at the start and destination points? 50% of dwellings potentially don't/can't have access to personal chargers. What about all those car parking areas for businesses - are they all going to be wired  (throughout my life I travelled by car to and from work - typically circa 100 mile round trips)? Imagine explainin that to your boss:
    '...I was here two hours early - honest - it just took me two hours to find a charge point...'
    ...and then getting home at some silly time at night, to find all the charge points are taken - what do you do then? Will houses without ready access to dedicated charge points be unsellable?

    And what is the impact also on roads and tyres? As isn't part of the issue with fossil vehicle pollution, the particles/dust from tyres and brakes. If the EV  weighs more, doesn't that potentially increase those (unless the EV uses more engine braking to slow the vehicle) - but the additional weight presumably must have an impact on the tyres and roads, irrespective of the brakes.

    I really thought that with Covid we'd realised we didn't have to move all the workforce to the work place (obviously some still have to travel) - that the work place could be anywhere for a large proportion. But it seems that the old model of shifting millions of people around on a daily basis is the way the gov wants us to go

    Basically a lot of businesses will be upgrading their parking facilities to allow for charging. Many will be providing EV company cars to meet their green cred requirements anyway. If 75% of commuters are travelling under 10 miles to get to work then they only need to charge once a week for work purposes. Plenty of places will let you do this while you do your weekly shopping or a whole host of other things. It's a marketing incentive for businesses to let people charge while they visit.

    EVs will create less brake dust as they have regenerative braking. As for weight generally I think that this is being worked on as the tech progresses https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • steveTu said:


    And what is the impact also on roads and tyres? As isn't part of the issue with fossil vehicle pollution, the particles/dust from tyres and brakes. If the EV  weighs more, doesn't that potentially increase those (unless the EV uses more engine braking to slow the vehicle) - but the additional weight presumably must have an impact on the tyres and roads, irrespective of the brakes.


    The damage to roads is proportional to the fourth power of the axle load, so doubling the load increases damage by a factor of 16. Electric cars are considerably heavier than petrol cars so the damage is very much greater.
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147
    Car transporters, bridges, ferries, garage hoists … what about the additional weight … I saw a garage breakdown low-loader really struggling with a Tesla … 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





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