I think that the CPS are a major issue in the prosecution of rape cases, only taking on cases they are guaranteed to win. If I had done this as an ICU consultant, I would not have admitted about 75% of our cases, because they stood a high chance of dying. @steveTu I think your sexual history may be rather different to the majority.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
Totally - who do you believe? Men lie, women lie - even Boris lies, Maybe at some point, we'll gain access to memories and be able to show how people perceived things at a time, but until then, unless the police have other evidence, rape (and other crimes that rely on consent) becomes a nightmare to police.
But you can't conflate the two can you? There used to be (and probably still are) thugs who go to football, but that wasn't the majority. And because some thugs enter the police force (and I read that the police attracts people with power issues) it can't be allowed to taint the poor sods doing a difficult job to the best of their ability. So some thuggy police does not mean all men are rapists or misogynists OR that the CPS is corrupt when dealing with rape. Even with excellent police, in anything that is subjective, without evidence to prove one way or another, is just a lottery. And I feel for anyone who is the subject of a miscarriage (in any crime) of justice, but the law can't be right, or proven to be right, 100% of the time.
Edited: Just as a thought - and as an aside from the OP's question - what criteria would you use to convince yourself that a rape had categorically taken place?
If someone is extremely drunk they cannot give consent as far as I am aware.
I am concerned that young men who could probably get plenty of sex with sober women chose to have sex with someone who was very inebriated. Why?
As footballers I imagine young attractive women were happy to sleep with them so surely if in doubt go with the female who is able to give consent.
You are forgetting that the man is probably drunk as well. I'm an old fart now, but i can remember many a time waking up in a bed with a woman, and have no idea who she is. Maybe she raped me?
'...All you can say for sure is that the justice system has let everyone down in this case...'
How can you say that? The CPS or whatever system was in use, assessed the evidence and came to the conclusion that the case did not have a reasonable chance in a criminal court. How can you come to a conclusion like your comment above without knowing everything that decision was based on?
It's not about this case. I have no idea if this bloke is guilty, although the civil court finding against him is fairly persuasive. What I do know is that many cases of rape are not prosecuted, not because there was no physical evidence, or that there was much doubt that rape had actually happened, but because the CPS (and the police) make judgements about how believable a victim may be, based on their own prejudices and preconceptions. There is an embedded idea that a woman can only be raped by someone she doesn't know or like and that therefore there can have been zero friendly or even flirtatious communication between her and her attacker beforehand. Grooming is pernicious. And equally the idea that ongoing apparently amiable exchanges after the attack means she wasn't raped totally misunderstands the way women can behave when they are threatened or frightened. Appeasement comes readily to very many women as a means of self defence. But both of these are used by the CPS as reasons not to prosecute rape. Husbands are rarely prosecuted for raping their wives. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
All of which means there is doubt that the absence of conviction actually equals the absence of a crime. And hence my assertion that the justice system has failed to protect the victim, if she is one, failed to protect the defendant if he's innocent, failed to punish or even acknowledge the crime, if there was one and failed to convince the public that the system is able to deal with these matters satisfactorily. It has comprehensively failed.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
According to my solicitor friend, rape is treated as exactly any other assault against a person. In Scots Law, you need at least two pieces of evidence to charge someone. Many folk phone the police claiming they were assaulted, not just sexual assault, but unless there is evidence, nothing can be done. If i phone the police and say someone has punched me, if nobody else has witnessed it, nothing will be done. People seem to think that only rape accusations get dropped, but ten times that of 'ordinary' assault get dropped through lack of evidence.
Sorry, I thought your comment specifically said 'in this case'.
I meant that in this case, the lack of confidence in the system has meant that everyone has been let down. I didn't mean specifically that in this case the decision not to prosecute was or wasn't correct
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Now doesn't that highlight an interesting point - you actually wrote -
'...All you can say for sure is that the justice system has let everyone down in this case...'
...but you didn't mean that. It's so easy to misunderstand things isn't it?
Edited to add: I totally agree rape happens in all walks of life - in and out of marriage and long term relationships - and between strangers and friends and family. But you seem to have a complete loss of faith in the CPS - what criteria would you use to prosecute a case and how would you know if a crime was likely to have been committed and to be provable in court?
Posts
If I had done this as an ICU consultant, I would not have admitted about 75% of our cases, because they stood a high chance of dying.
@steveTu I think your sexual history may be rather different to the majority.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
I'm an old fart now, but i can remember many a time waking up in a bed with a woman, and have no idea who she is.
Maybe she raped me?
All of which means there is doubt that the absence of conviction actually equals the absence of a crime. And hence my assertion that the justice system has failed to protect the victim, if she is one, failed to protect the defendant if he's innocent, failed to punish or even acknowledge the crime, if there was one and failed to convince the public that the system is able to deal with these matters satisfactorily. It has comprehensively failed.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
If i phone the police and say someone has punched me, if nobody else has witnessed it, nothing will be done.
People seem to think that only rape accusations get dropped, but ten times that of 'ordinary' assault get dropped through lack of evidence.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
...but you didn't mean that. It's so easy to misunderstand things isn't it?