what people (or is this just me projecting?) want out of a justice system is retribution
I can't answer for people generally, but what I want from the justice system is to believe that guilty people are found to be guilty, so that I can be confident that anyone not proven to be guilty is, in fact, innocent. The guilty do whatever penance is asked, then move on. The innocent move on. The victims can't, but at least their injury is acknowledged.
In this case, because the justice system is so woefully unreliable when it comes to rape, we have a (possible) victim who is being (perhaps) traduced as a gold digger, either an innocent man who's career is being ruined by a malicious accusation or a criminal who seems to have got away with a terrible crime, the public making up their own minds in the absence of a clear decision and now a pretty egregious example of mob rule.
All you can say for sure is that the justice system has let everyone down in this case
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
'...All you can say for sure is that the justice system has let everyone down in this case...'
How can you say that? The CPS or whatever system was in use, assessed the evidence and came to the conclusion that the case did not have a reasonable chance in a criminal court. How can you come to a conclusion like your comment above without knowing everything that decision was based on?
Rape must be one of the most difficult things to prove mustn't it? As all the physical evidence of a rape may be there in consensual sex. What then is there to prove rape and how difficult is it for a prosecution to prove a case without doubt? I seriously find it difficult to believe, that a CPS wouldn't prosecute any rape case that had a chance to be won. Why would they do that?
It's really difficult to deal with rape cases at every stage. The justice system does not appear to have tackled these difficulties with any enthusiasm but it is working in a morass of complications.
How can it ever be easy? Maybe I'm so different to most people, but I don't think in my life I've ever said '...do you want sex?..' to anyone. As humans - like other animals - my partner and I read signals from each other. Sometimes I initiated stuff, sometimes the partner - sometimes both - sometimes we looked at each other and just thought 'nah' and had a cocoa instead. I've never been asked ever if I want sex either. Never.
Luckily, I was in good relationships, even when my first marriage broke down - but how easy would it be in a dodgy relationship now, for one of the two partners to be 'raped' because they hadn't given consent? It's an absolute minefield.
It all becomes vastly more difficult because not all people like the same type of sex either. So what I may class as objectionable isn't objectionable to two consenting adults - so without knowing the sexual history of the people involved as well, how can you assess force, coercion or anything like that? People slam the police for this, but I'd hate to be some poor sod (male or female) trying to see through the 'facts' in this sort of case.
Ched Evans was convicted - and then won on appeal. By then he had served a sentence. The CPS decided in that case they did have enough to prosecute, so did.
Football players play football. They are no more role models than musicians are.
Where have I mentioned 'role models' ? ... but the lower level teams need playing staff who can do the outreach work ... I used to volunteer with a youth club for learning disabled youngsters ... Norwich City FC regularly sent players along to our events and provided coaching and sponsored matches for our youngsters. It's part of the job with most teams.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Why do clubs roll out the 'celebrity' players in front of kids if not to be role models - their potential sporting heroes? Why didn't NFC's tea person come down and talk to the kids? Why not the person on the turnstiles? The person who maintains the kit?
The clubs below the prem have a much more vested interest in community work. Obviously all clubs want to fill their grounds, but with TV payments to the prem, the gates are of less value to the club than TV air time. They work with the community because clubs are businesses and it's in the business interest to have good local support.
Why do clubs roll out the 'celebrity' players in front of kids if not to be role models - their potential sporting heroes? Why didn't NFC's tea person come down and talk to the kids? Why not the person on the turnstiles? The person who maintains the kit?
The clubs below the prem have a much more vested interest in community work. Obviously all clubs want to fill their grounds, but with TV payments to the prem, the gates are of less value to the club than TV air time. They work with the community because clubs are businesses and it's in the business interest to have good local support.
1. Why didn't NFC's tea person come down and talk to the kids? Why not the person on the turnstiles? The person who maintains the kit?
They did ... and the youngsters helped out at matches too ... as well as the more high profile role of being 'mascots' at the beginning of the match.
2. The clubs below the prem have a much more vested interest in community work. Obviously all clubs want to fill their grounds, but with TV payments to the prem, the gates are of less value to the club than TV air time. They work with the community because clubs are businesses and it's in the business interest to have good local support.
My point exactly.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
But the club will have rolled out anyone popular with the fans irrespective of their character - so how does that prove a point? And who judges the character?
@steveTu it is indeed a minefield, complicated by the fact that people tell lies. I think alcohol makes it even more muddled. In this case, apparently, the men offered the woman a lift home but they took her somewhere else - that rings alarm bells for me. I cannot speculate on the games people play but the process of making a rape claim is so complex and degrading that I am unwilling to believe that a high proportion are mischievous. And I'm sceptical about male claims that she really meant yes in many cases. However, my doubts and prejudices are a clear illustration of why we need excellent police and legal services, not blokes who think women like to be slapped about a bit. Minefield? Oh yes.
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In this case, because the justice system is so woefully unreliable when it comes to rape, we have a (possible) victim who is being (perhaps) traduced as a gold digger, either an innocent man who's career is being ruined by a malicious accusation or a criminal who seems to have got away with a terrible crime, the public making up their own minds in the absence of a clear decision and now a pretty egregious example of mob rule.
All you can say for sure is that the justice system has let everyone down in this case
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
They did ... and the youngsters helped out at matches too ... as well as the more high profile role of being 'mascots' at the beginning of the match.
2. The clubs below the prem have a much more vested interest in community work. Obviously all clubs want to fill their grounds, but with TV payments to the prem, the gates are of less value to the club than TV air time. They work with the community because clubs are businesses and it's in the business interest to have good local support.
My point exactly.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I cannot speculate on the games people play but the process of making a rape claim is so complex and degrading that I am unwilling to believe that a high proportion are mischievous. And I'm sceptical about male claims that she really meant yes in many cases.
However, my doubts and prejudices are a clear illustration of why we need excellent police and legal services, not blokes who think women like to be slapped about a bit.
Minefield? Oh yes.