But I'm missing it here. The whole point of the suggested voter ID card is because of the opposite. Because some people are fraudulently voting - allegedly. So if you introduce something to stop that fraud, it itself should not be open to the same sort of fraud should it? Or else what is the point? Fraudsters by their very title aren't honest.
The fraudsters don't perpetrate the fraud on each other. They defraud the honest majority. If you have a verified ID card, they have to have that card or a facsimile of it to vote as you. They can't simply get an ID card with their picture in your name, unless you don't register, perhaps. It would show up and the police would presumably investigate which is the real Spartacus
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
I've followed this thread with interest but I think there's a point which has been overlooked. Many of the people who won't currently have id - often because they can't afford to run a car or go on holidays overseas - are already not particularly engaged with the electoral process. There is a widely held view among them (and also among quite a large proportion of the rest of the population) that politicians of all colours are corrupt and self-serving and not really interested in bettering the lives of the less well off. If an additional obstacle is put in the way of voting for these people then they are even less likely to bother to participate.
I don't follow that. I haven't seen anywhere that says how a voter card photo will be authenticated (at point of application) so far. My question was/is how that will be done. What I got in reply was a couple of people who said that they signed passport photos to validate photos of people they knew. Fine. (I think they missed a bit, as checking it seems they also had to quote their passport number to do that). IE how verifiable and secure is that authentication. What is there in that process to stop a fraudster using their own photo with someone else's name/address when applying for a voter ID card.
...but even that has got to be better than just turning up at a polling station claiming to be Mr x of such-and-and such address with nothing to check at all.
I am wondering whether the process has already started. My sister moved house in March and mentioned today has received a letter addressed to The Occupier to register on the Electoral Roll. She has to submit valid ID with the form and doesn't recall having to do that when she last moved a few years ago. I do think that ID cards are an excellent idea, not least from a medical point of view. However it is not always easy to provide. Having worked in financial services for many years, the frustrations both staff and customers experienced in order to comply with money laundering legislation was enormous especially for the elderly who had let their driving licences and passports expire and the disabled who had never had them in the first place, but if you have to provide ID to get the ID card...........
BTW I still turn up at the polling station with my photo ID, currently passport only because my paper one didn't need changing until recently. Never got asked for it but always hoped there was more about voting than just turning up and giving a name on their list. There's a readily available list of voters. Who's to say turning up shortly after they open you can't get in first? Then move on to the next constituency to be another person. No cameras allowed in the polling station so no way of corroborating the fraudulent early voter. Not saying it happens though. Voting must be the activity which the UK is most honest with! Possibly among the most important things to do and we don't cheat with it. I'm actually surprised by that.
such fun!!! Trying to prove your ID without a passport or driving license, so you can get a card with your ID on. trying to prove your address without a paper bill, I don’t have any paper bills. Making sure your allergies are on your medical records, mine are not on there at the moment and I can’t see a way of putting them on.
All to make sure the massive amount of people who are the victim of voter fraud( anyone know anyone? ) can sleep safe in their beds.
such fun!!! Trying to prove your ID without a passport or driving license, so you can get a card with your ID on. trying to prove your address without a paper bill, I don’t have any paper bills. Making sure your allergies are on your medical records, mine are not on there at the moment and I can’t see a way of putting them on.
All to make sure the massive amount of people who are the victim of voter fraud( anyone know anyone? ) can sleep safe in their beds.
If one person commits voter fraud we are all the victims.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that voter fraud is a real issue. If this government believes it is widespread perhaps they should call for an election as the last one was obviously unsafe.
But isn't identification more needed for other things? Have you tried to open a bank account, sell or buy a house and numerous other things. Ever tried to claim benefits without ID? Back when I was out of work they asked to see my NI card, a form of ID. I go to a bank branch to get anything from information to money they get meto put my card in a reader and type my PIN in.
We're in a era where identification is needed all over the place. We're probably not even aware of some of the times our identification is being checked. There's data on us all over the place. Paranoia over one use of identification is like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Posts
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
I do think that ID cards are an excellent idea, not least from a medical point of view. However it is not always easy to provide. Having worked in financial services for many years, the frustrations both staff and customers experienced in order to comply with money laundering legislation was enormous especially for the elderly who had let their driving licences and passports expire and the disabled who had never had them in the first place, but if you have to provide ID to get the ID card...........
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
We're in a era where identification is needed all over the place. We're probably not even aware of some of the times our identification is being checked. There's data on us all over the place. Paranoia over one use of identification is like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.