@Marlorena Oh I would so love to join the national garden scheme one day.. and you’ll definitely be one of the firsts on my guest list 😊 With complimentary tea, home baked scones and jam (from my then huge garden of course) - I do like to indulge in a bit of dreaming.. but I’m determined to make that happen. 😁
oh and I looked up Korresia and yes it does look incredibly similar. And it’s a Kordes rose too.. I feel like I’m starting to break out of the DA bubble now ha!
@edhelka some places sell it as 'Paul Noel' but it's the same rose,... it repeat blooms very well apparently..
Yeah, that. I would love to have more info on that, if DA's PN is really PN and if PB's PT is really PT... I did all research I could about their differences, read all references on HMF. But in the end, we sometimes need to take some risks. I like the look of PT blooms more, it should be fragrant and it should have some repeat. PT has better references for repeat but I think that the references could also mix PN and PT. In any case, they are both very pretty and I wouldn't mind having PN. I can compare with HMF photos (which are also clearly mixed ) after having it and seeing it bloom.
@edhelka ...I know it's confusing, but just to advise that, what DA is selling as 'Paul Noel', they used to sell as 'Paul Transon'... it's the same clone as what Beales are selling... Austins and Trevor White made the decision a few years ago, to change the name to Paul Noel, because they noticed the extra quilling of the petals... Beales have kept it to Paul Transon as have French Tea Rose in France... they will all be growing the same clone, as it emanated from the same source.. ...take your pick as to which is correct, no one seems to know for certain so you will have to check early references when you see more detail on your rose... it could be that one or the other is lost to cultivation in the UK, and the same rose has been sold under both names at one time or another..
@Marlorena That would make sense. Beales description has been the same since 1982. It's in the HMF references from their 1982 catalogue and it's exactly the same as the website today.
It makes me a bit mad, how they don't care. It's similar with Sombreuil which they all are still selling as a climbing tea.
@edhelka ...Sombreuil is one of many... names sell, so they stick with whatever name it's acquired, especially if it's rather exotic, and ignore the real one... their Tea rose 'Adam', used also to be sold as 'Mme. Berard'... the same rose under 2 names.. they've recently withdrawn the 'Mme Berard' name and stuck with Adam... then there's the famous Pink Gruss an Aachen... not many native English speakers would buy a rose with that difficult name... call it 'Irene Watts' and it probably sells a few more.. yet it's incorrect of course albeit from a case of mistaken identity originally, but they still sell it under both names... but it's the same the world over... if you tell them, they don't admit it - I've tried it..
...and the most infamous of all is the one I got the other day.. 'Francis Dubreuil'.. or would you rather have 'Barcelona'..?.. perhaps it's a good question to ask members here, if they saw 2 roses, one sold as 'Francis Dubreuil' a 19th C rose from France, and the other 'Barcelona', a 1932 rose from Germany.. both look identical,.. which would they pick up?..
@edhelka ..no, it's never been sold here as 'Barcelona' to my knowledge.. the mistake occurred a long time ago when it was imported from Sangerhausen in former East Germany... all sorts of roses from that famous garden got wrongly identified unfortunately... couldn't be helped with the war and all that... labels got misplaced,.. staff lost to the war etc.. nobody knew what was what and nurseries here like Beales imported these roses from there, with doubtful names, much later... My way of looking at it is that mistakes should, where known, be rectified, but then I'm not in the business of selling roses to the public, where names are so very important..
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oh and I looked up Korresia and yes it does look incredibly similar. And it’s a Kordes rose too.. I feel like I’m starting to break out of the DA bubble now ha!
I never before noticed that you weren't Purple Allium. Just goes to show. Something. (I can't spell for toffi). @purplerallim
...I know it's confusing, but just to advise that, what DA is selling as 'Paul Noel', they used to sell as 'Paul Transon'... it's the same clone as what Beales are selling... Austins and Trevor White made the decision a few years ago, to change the name to Paul Noel, because they noticed the extra quilling of the petals... Beales have kept it to Paul Transon as have French Tea Rose in France... they will all be growing the same clone, as it emanated from the same source..
...take your pick as to which is correct, no one seems to know for certain so you will have to check early references when you see more detail on your rose... it could be that one or the other is lost to cultivation in the UK, and the same rose has been sold under both names at one time or another..
...Sombreuil is one of many... names sell, so they stick with whatever name it's acquired, especially if it's rather exotic, and ignore the real one... their Tea rose 'Adam', used also to be sold as 'Mme. Berard'... the same rose under 2 names.. they've recently withdrawn the 'Mme Berard' name and stuck with Adam... then there's the famous Pink Gruss an Aachen... not many native English speakers would buy a rose with that difficult name... call it 'Irene Watts' and it probably sells a few more.. yet it's incorrect of course albeit from a case of mistaken identity originally, but they still sell it under both names... but it's the same the world over... if you tell them, they don't admit it - I've tried it..
...and the most infamous of all is the one I got the other day.. 'Francis Dubreuil'.. or would you rather have 'Barcelona'..?.. perhaps it's a good question to ask members here, if they saw 2 roses, one sold as 'Francis Dubreuil' a 19th C rose from France, and the other 'Barcelona', a 1932 rose from Germany.. both look identical,.. which would they pick up?..
..no, it's never been sold here as 'Barcelona' to my knowledge.. the mistake occurred a long time ago when it was imported from Sangerhausen in former East Germany... all sorts of roses from that famous garden got wrongly identified unfortunately... couldn't be helped with the war and all that... labels got misplaced,.. staff lost to the war etc.. nobody knew what was what and nurseries here like Beales imported these roses from there, with doubtful names, much later...
My way of looking at it is that mistakes should, where known, be rectified, but then I'm not in the business of selling roses to the public, where names are so very important..