However, rightly or wrongly we all have a right to express our opinions. We may not agree with them and they may be wrong but that's what debate is all about.
Yes I agree and that's why I suggested that in the Covid thread @punkdoc was helping. All the facts and figures haven't been collated yet and only time will tell but until then all we can do is our best.
There was an outbreak of Measles in Sheffield a number of years back. I looked after 2 young adults with measles encephalitis, both died. They had never been vaccinated, bad advice about vaccines causing autism. I have shown the figures many times on this thread, it is beyond doubt that vaccines have saved 100,000s of lives, and yes in a very small number of cases have killed patients. I will debate with reasonable people, but not with posters like this morning, who as was shown by another poster, completely drew the wrong conclusions from the paper she quoted. A recent survey of intensive care consultants, showed 98% had received all the doses they were eligible for. Why do we think that might be?
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
I think everyone I know (certainly everyone I've discussed it with) has had all the vaccine doses they were eligible for. That includes family, friends, people at my evening classes etc, work colleagues (the younger ones moan a bit that they aren't eligible for the same doses as us oldies). If there are anti-vaxxers amongst them, they're keeping it quiet.
Doncaster, South Yorkshire. Soil type: sandy, well-drained
@punkdoc I strongly disagree that with Covid a kind of censorship has started where one group is sure that they are entitled to tell others what they have to do. In particular that everybody who is vaccinated has to stress that he is vaccinated before expressing doubts.
If we have come so far, believe me, the communists didn’t manipulate the people differently. First, they created an atmosphere of being always right, then they made people feel that they had to apologise for having doubts. I assure you, dangerous is to ignore if my dad has got side-effects and I couldn’t care less what other people think about it.
@punkdoc I strongly disagree that with Covid a kind of censorship has started where one group is sure that they are entitled to tell others what they have to do. In particular that everybody who is vaccinated has to stress that he is vaccinated before expressing doubts.
If we have come so far, believe me, the communists didn’t manipulate the people differently. First, they created an atmosphere of being always right, then they made people feel that they had to apologise for having doubts. I assure you, dangerous is to ignore if my dad has got side-effects and I couldn’t care less what other people think about it.
One of the problems with your argument is that you are in fact promoting a scenario where 'one group is sure that they are entitled to tell others what they have to do', or rather what they have to put up with. The minority who didn't want vaccinations, who didn't want masks, who didn't want covid restrictions were in effect saying that they had the right to spread covid, and to anyone regardless of the other person's beliefs or opinions. In other words, that minority group is doing exactly what you are criticising other for, albeit from a different angle.
I can completely understand how some people remain wary of government advice and of vaccines, and yes absolutely it is ok to question. What is not acceptable, in my view, is to distort and fabricate, which is what too many anti-vaxxers have done and continue to do. It is not right to sow disinformation that then affects others. My neighbour, a farmer, is in serious pain and needs a knee replacement. He won't have it done though because he has been persuaded that he will have to be vaccinated and that the vaccine will cause him worse problems than the pain he is in, not might but will. That is not right.
Question, by all means, but as someone else has said question using facts and listening to other sides of the argument as well as your starting point. Or if you prefer, question with whatever interpretation you like but then either keep it to yourself or expect to get push back.
I'm not mentioning my vaccination status, up to you to guess.
Sorry, I should have said 'I can completely understand how some people remain wary', in part due to the conflicting information that is being spread. I'm not suggesting that people need to be wary, more that if you are then it is right to question.
@NormandyLiz We are not part of a group that was against the vaccine. What puncdoc calls dangerous is that I decided against a fourth vaccine because I realised after 2 years that our circumstances don’t give a chance to get Covid and Covid itself has changed. Do now people have to apologise for not getting Covid?
It must be possible to differentiate between the one and the other side.
Do be careful with that assumption, @Simone_in_Wiltshire. Unless you go nowhere and see no one, it will always have a chance. I got it last year. Having been very careful since the beginning due to a mild version of an underlying condition, I managed to pick it up in the 5 minutes I took my mask off while trying on glasses frames at the opticians. And it is still an issue, that one dose of covid took me months to get over properly.
Posts
Well said @Uff
I play with plants and soil and sometimes it's successful
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
All the facts and figures haven't been collated yet and only time will tell but until then all we can do is our best.
They had never been vaccinated, bad advice about vaccines causing autism.
I have shown the figures many times on this thread, it is beyond doubt that vaccines have saved 100,000s of lives, and yes in a very small number of cases have killed patients.
I will debate with reasonable people, but not with posters like this morning, who as was shown by another poster, completely drew the wrong conclusions from the paper she quoted.
A recent survey of intensive care consultants, showed 98% had received all the doses they were eligible for. Why do we think that might be?
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
I assure you, dangerous is to ignore if my dad has got side-effects and I couldn’t care less what other people think about it.
I ♥ my garden.
I can completely understand how some people remain wary of government advice and of vaccines, and yes absolutely it is ok to question. What is not acceptable, in my view, is to distort and fabricate, which is what too many anti-vaxxers have done and continue to do. It is not right to sow disinformation that then affects others. My neighbour, a farmer, is in serious pain and needs a knee replacement. He won't have it done though because he has been persuaded that he will have to be vaccinated and that the vaccine will cause him worse problems than the pain he is in, not might but will. That is not right.
Question, by all means, but as someone else has said question using facts and listening to other sides of the argument as well as your starting point. Or if you prefer, question with whatever interpretation you like but then either keep it to yourself or expect to get push back.
I'm not mentioning my vaccination status, up to you to guess.
I ♥ my garden.