Yes, if one doesn't 'get the joke' it's their fault for lacking a sense of humour. That, I'm sad to say is an element which forms the basis of an abusive relationship. Sorry, I'm dragging this into dreadful waters. I'm best out of here.
Stewart Lee shocks too - but I find him really, really funny. I don't think he would stoop low - punching down - like Jimmy Carr does, he punches up, as well as having a go at his white liberal middle class audiences, who lap it up. But then he is a cleverer man than Carr.
Yes I agree with this. However I don't usually actually mind JC's no-holds-barred, indiscriminate machine-gun of of offensive jokes... mainly because they seem indiscriminate. And he does punch up and certainly at himself. HOWEVER.... there really is a TERRIBLE problem with anti-Gypsy discrimination in this country and all over Europe. And that discrimination connects with what happened to them in the holocaust. As a gay man I found myself wondering how I'd feel if he'd joked about Hitler doing everyone a favour by 'holocausting' homosexuals. I think my feelings would go beyond being merely offended.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
Hitler was pretty indiscriminate when it came to killing whether it was Jews, homosexuals, the disabled, Romani or in the final instance his own countrymen and women. Then again the bombing of Dresden was pretty brutal as was Hiroshima none of which should be the subjects of casual humour.
Stewart Lee shocks too - but I find him really, really funny. I don't think he would stoop low - punching down - like Jimmy Carr does, he punches up, as well as having a go at his white liberal middle class audiences, who lap it up. But then he is a cleverer man than Carr.
Yes I agree with this. However I don't usually actually mind JC's no-holds-barred, indiscriminate machine-gun of of offensive jokes... mainly because they seem indiscriminate. And he does punch up and certainly at himself. HOWEVER.... there really is a TERRIBLE problem with anti-Gypsy discrimination in this country and all over Europe. And that discrimination connects with what happened to them in the holocaust. As a gay man I found myself wondering how I'd feel if he'd joked about Hitler doing everyone a favour by 'holocausting' homosexuals. I think my feelings would go beyond being merely offended.
But that’s the whole point of what and why Jimmy Carr said what he said … he was showing that there are still people who are still so looked down on and marginalised that people will laugh at a joke about them being slaughtered.
He said it and people laughed …. and now we’re angrier with him for holding a mirror up to Britain and revealing that, than we are with British society 🤯
There’s more to being a comedian than simply being funny … like the role of the King’s Fool.
We’re shooting the messenger because we don’t understand the message.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Dovefromabove said:But that’s the whole point of what and why Jimmy Carr said what he said … he was showing that there are still people who are still so looked down on and marginalised that people will laugh at a joke about them being slaughtered.
I don't think the joke was that deep to be honest.
You could use that line to post-rationalise any joke.
Jimmy tells jokes that shock. If Stewart Lee had told the joke, I would be sure that there was some kind of deeper point to it, but this is Jimmy Carr. Here's another Gypsy related one he got into trouble for in the past.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
Dovefromabove said:But that’s the whole point of what and why Jimmy Carr said what he said … he was showing that there are still people who are still so looked down on and marginalised that people will laugh at a joke about them being slaughtered.
I don't think the joke was that deep to be honest.
You could use that line to post-rationalise any joke.
Jimmy tells jokes that shock. If Stewart Lee had told the joke, I would be sure that there was some kind of deeper point to it, but this is Jimmy Carr. Here's another Gypsy related one he got into trouble for in the past.
In the article you linked to a spokesperson for the Gypsy Council has made a similar point ...
"...Ann Bagshot, a spokeswoman for the Gypsy council was apparently angry, but "unsurprised" at the remarks: "There are certain groups of people that everyone thinks they can make jokes about and you have to shrug your shoulders and move on." ..."
Whatever Jimmy Carr's motive (and I believe my theory is the correct one), it proves is that a large proportion of UK society refuses to accept that Gypsies/Travellers/Romani etc are equal citizens of this country and think it's ok to laugh at jokes about them. The audience laughed ....... they're the people who need to change ... when jokes like that no longer have an audience there'll be no point in anyone telling them, for whatever reason.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
@Dovefromabove The thing is, we already know there's people who find the murder of a group they look down upon as something to be laughed at. Jimmy Carr hasn't highlighted anything new and the people who laugh aren't going to reflect, they're doing exactly as expected, saying "it's only a joke" and complaining about the so called "woke brigade". If his intentions were altruistic (which I feel unlikely), it was a big swing and a miss.
I've never been a Jimmy Carr fan because I think he's an AH. He reminds me of some of the kids I went to school with who used to make "jokes" about a girl who used to wear a leg brace. Thoroughly unpleasant.
I'm not a huge fan of his particularly ... but from what I've seen of him I'm pretty sure he's not evil and I think he's pretty bright ... I think he intends to be provocative for the right reason which is to make people reflect on why some people feel it's ok to laugh at things that others quite rightly find abhorrent.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I actually watched most of the show on Saturday (I am a JC fan, and like dark humour). No... no he wasn't making some clever point intended to spark reflection.
@Dovefromabove - your link actually goes to a story about Victoria Coren, and she says:
“While I’m here, might take a moment to mention I also love @JimmyCarr, a close friend who’s made about a thousand jokes I wouldn’t make myself, as a stage performer, but as a man is full of goodness and kindness. He’s a properly decent person.”
I've bolded the words "a thousand jokes I wouldn’t make myself" myself. Victoria acknowledges there's an issue with the joke. Whether Carr is 'full of goodness and kindness' is beside the point.
Baddiel, who said he is a “close friend” of Carr’s, shared his take on the matter on Saturday, explaining why he thinks the joke is deserving of criticism. “You can obviously tell a Holocaust joke that is cruel and inhumane and mean-spirited and racist. Or you can tell one that targets the oppressors, or draws attention to the fundamental evil of it, or shines a light on the humanity of the victims.”
“I said this every night during my Trolls: Not The Dolls tour as part of a bit arguing that it’s not the subject matter of a joke that counts, it’s the specifics of the individual joke. Clearly, Jimmy Carr’s was the former.”
Baddiel also added that “Jimmy is a close friend of mine and a brilliant stand-up in general”, stating: “Makes no difference to how I feel or think about this specific joke.”
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
Posts
I'm best out of here.
There’s more to being a comedian than simply being funny … like the role of the King’s Fool.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
You could use that line to post-rationalise any joke.
Jimmy tells jokes that shock. If Stewart Lee had told the joke, I would be sure that there was some kind of deeper point to it, but this is Jimmy Carr. Here's another Gypsy related one he got into trouble for in the past.
"...Ann Bagshot, a spokeswoman for the Gypsy council was apparently angry, but "unsurprised" at the remarks: "There are certain groups of people that everyone thinks they can make jokes about and you have to shrug your shoulders and move on." ..."
Whatever Jimmy Carr's motive (and I believe my theory is the correct one), it proves is that a large proportion of UK society refuses to accept that Gypsies/Travellers/Romani etc are equal citizens of this country and think it's ok to laugh at jokes about them. The audience laughed ....... they're the people who need to change ... when jokes like that no longer have an audience there'll be no point in anyone telling them, for whatever reason.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I've never been a Jimmy Carr fan because I think he's an AH. He reminds me of some of the kids I went to school with who used to make "jokes" about a girl who used to wear a leg brace. Thoroughly unpleasant.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/jimmy-carr-victoria-coren-mitchell-netflix-b2008677.html
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
@Dovefromabove - your link actually goes to a story about Victoria Coren, and she says:
I've bolded the words "a thousand jokes I wouldn’t make myself" myself. Victoria acknowledges there's an issue with the joke. Whether Carr is 'full of goodness and kindness' is beside the point.
As David Baddiel puts it:
“I said this every night during my Trolls: Not The Dolls tour as part of a bit arguing that it’s not the subject matter of a joke that counts, it’s the specifics of the individual joke. Clearly, Jimmy Carr’s was the former.”
Baddiel also added that “Jimmy is a close friend of mine and a brilliant stand-up in general”, stating: “Makes no difference to how I feel or think about this specific joke.”