Sorry @Chris-P-Bacon - I'm with Diane Abbott on this one. Hate speech is rightly a crime and must not be conflated with freedom of speech. What Jimmy Carr said wasn't hate speech - but is nevertheless not funny as it reinforces the views of so many against a particular group of people which could, as Diane Abbott says, lead to hateful actions. I wonder why Carr chose to single out 'gypsies' rather than 'homesexuals' when he described their deaths as a positive? What would everyone's reactions have been if he had said Gays? Is it because we have a residual dislike of a certain group of people (my 'so-called' gypsies) that means they are not off-limits in the way that gay people would be?
It sounded like a Frankie Boyle joke to me. If Frankie Boyle had said it I would have been ok with it personally, because it would have been clear (to me at least) that he was talking about "hierarchies of racism" and mocking racists, not laughing at the genocide of gypsies Roma and travellers.
Unlike Jimmy Carr, Frankie Boyle (even though I know he's not everyone's type of comedian) is a very politically aware anti-racist. Jimmy Carr is a tax-dodging bully who punches down, so imo it's harder for me to believe he was making a considered point about racism to his audience. Agree with you on Chomsky's point though @Chris-P-Bacon (but not Peterson at all, who I hate ) - Carr should be able to say it, be able to explain the thought process behind it, and people should be able to talk about it openly and dispute/debate it in public.
He is a marmite comedian probably like most comedians you ether find them funny or not . He does routines all the time that are set out to shock and offend the audience you either laugh or don't , and he will even tell you its offensive or might be over the line . He told joke about all sorts of things including other jokes about WW2 - rapists - pope - jimmy savile nothing out of bounds . If you are watching a jimmy carr gig you know its going to be full of dark humour with some outrageous jokes.
He is a marmite comedian probably like most comedians you ether find them funny or not .
Hmm. I generally expect there to be a difference between an outrageous statement, said to shock and provoke a reaction or debate and an outrageous joke, which I feel ought to have some sort of humorous element to it. I don't mind people being provocative in order to highlight an issue. I don't feel inclined to laugh when I am provoked. I guess some people do. But then I don't laugh when people fall over, or are asked to eat live insects. I suppose some people's shock reaction is to laugh.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
A truly great comedian would be able to make everyone laugh and offend no one. In my mind, the less skill a comedian has, the more they resort to smut or controversy, at least they get themselves noticed. Presumably enough people find Jimmy Carr funny to keep him on the tv? Ive never found him the slightest bit amusing, and I think this current comment is very inappropriate and offensive. However, despite, ( or maybe because of ) having been brought up as a Catholic, and educated by Irish nuns, I find Father Ted riotously funny.
I found it deeply offensive, what Jimmy Carr said and was equally disturbed that the audience laughed and applauded such comments by him, all in the name of 'comedy'. Shame on you, Mr Carr.
I am surprised if most people are unaware that it was not only people of Jewish extraction who suffered in the Holocaust.
I fear that if you asked many of the younger generation what the Holocaust was they would think it was a pop group or the start of a new film franchise at the cinema.
My thought is that Jimmy Carr is a complex comic, and that the joke is a sort of double bluff with the intention of causing cause folk to question why most people only know about the Jews being killed in the holocaust, and know nothing of the learning and physically disabled, travelling folk and other non-Aryan minorities who were rounded up and exterminated.
I am surprised if most people are unaware that it was not only people of Jewish extraction who suffered in the Holocaust. Even my English Language students from Germany were well aware of this back in the 1990's. I wonder what led JC to make that assumption ? Hardly the point tho. It is quite noticeable that comedy show audiences will laugh at each punch line delivered. That's why they go after all - to be amused rather than offended.Maybe some of them got home and had a rethink ? Who knows. Comedy is a fine line these days but I'd prefer the attitude here rather than those countries which don't allow any sort of deviation.
I was reading some stuff in the US press several weeks ago which revealed appalling ignorance about the groups of people who were victims of the holocaust.
I can’t find what it was I was reading, but I did find this which is worrying enough …
and, coupled with Whoopi Goldberg’s recent comments, just goes to show that finding new ways to shock us into absorbing the horror will always be needed.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
In the special, Carr, known for his standup and
roles on shows such as 8 Out Of 10 Cats, went on to explain why he
thought it was a good joke, saying that it was “fucking funny”, “edgy as
hell” and had an educational value.
“It’s a
joke about the worst thing that’s ever happened in human history, and
people say ‘never forget’, well this is how I remember,” he said.
“There
is an educational quality. Like everyone in the room knows 6 million
Jewish people lost their lives to the Nazis during the second world war.
But a lot of people don’t know, because it’s not really taught in our
schools, that the Nazis also killed, in their thousands, Gypsies,
homosexuals, disabled people and Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
Just thought the rest of the context might be helpful.
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
Posts
Unlike Jimmy Carr, Frankie Boyle (even though I know he's not everyone's type of comedian) is a very politically aware anti-racist. Jimmy Carr is a tax-dodging bully who punches down, so imo it's harder for me to believe he was making a considered point about racism to his audience. Agree with you on Chomsky's point though @Chris-P-Bacon (but not Peterson at all, who I hate
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Ive never found him the slightest bit amusing, and I think this current comment is very inappropriate and offensive. However, despite, ( or maybe because of ) having been brought up as a Catholic, and educated by Irish nuns, I find Father Ted riotously funny.
Shame on you, Mr Carr.
https://www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/students-understanding-of-holocaust-is-deeply-troubling/
and, coupled with Whoopi Goldberg’s recent comments, just goes to show that finding new ways to shock us into absorbing the horror will always be needed.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.