As for taking the knee. That loses me a bit. Booing it (and booing national anthems) I think is wrong (but is then boo'ing a team right? Is that racist?). I'm not sure what effect taking the knee has - it had 'some' impact on me the first couple of times. I would say - given what has been happening - that taking the knee does not stop racists being racist at all. It is a gesture that loses impact the more it's done. Much like the footballers wearing a badge saying 'Respect' on their sleeves and then going onto the pitch and totally disrespecting the officials. It's a nonsense. What is that respect? And doesn't Respect cover being against racism? You can't have respect if you're racist can you?
The idea behind taking the knee (and any other gesture could have been chosen, it doesn't matter what the gesture is) is to show solidarity with black players against racism, in a visible way that normalises it. We know that footballers are role models for young people.
Obviously it doesn't stop some fans being racist, but it does seem quite effective at getting them to announce themselves and as such we have a clearer idea of the problem.
I feel some people bend over backwards to overcomplicate the issue.
I've seen comments from black England fans that they feel more included in the game this year. It's heartening that the team have got behind the gesture and from all the behind the scenes footage, appear to live by the message.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
OK, so everyone here is against racism and probably most of the other prejudices around today, but as Dove says, bigots know when to conceal their bigotry. So what do ordinary people do about it? A petition may be a good thing but it won't change much. What do you think could make a change?
Whew! Both my hubby and I have experienced "racism" at work,by different countries people. Him the Indian chaps,hating the black. Me,we had a very nasty Mauritiun Muslim,he hated others people of colour,black,etc,and white. Unfortunately,he was on charge,I attempted to complain about his bullying,was poo poo down. He was suspended several times,got solicitor involved,and guess what used the race card. He threatened a friend of mine,saying his brother in law was the chief of police in Mauritius,she was terrified,I told him my hubby was related to the "Cray's". Funnily enough,a couple of years later,my oldest son had a lovely girlfriend whose uncle was,yup, the chief of police in Mauritius!!
The Respect campaign seemed targeted at bad behaviour within football (players, fans, parents at after-school football clubs etc), including but not specifically relating to racism. It was an FA initiative, whereas taking the knee seems to have originated from black players (and their team mates) themselves. Taking the knee is more focussed on racism and takes it beyond the issues directly related to football.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
What I particularly appreciate is the teams dogged insistence on continuing with the gesture despite all the howls of derision from a subset of fans, much of the media, and, sadly, politicians. It took on more meaning for me at that point.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
Personally, I think you have to back the law and educate the young. We end up talking around the periphery without actually doing anything. The gesture becomes the action - and that is not right and IMO ends up trivialising the issue. If any 'ism' can be proven, then it must be prosecuted through the law. But when there was a high profile case in football it was shown to be difficult to prove. How do you prove an 'ism'? If I employ a person - was that because of an 'ism' or just a personal choice? If I employ multiple people and they're all one colour or all one sex or all of an age or ... - is that an 'ism'? Is it an 'ism' if you don't know who applied? Is it educationalist to use qualifications to judge a person for a job? Is it if one of the people had been given a worse education? Can you then have institutional isms by restricting/denying access to.. that manifests itself later and is NOT then classed as an ism? So I reject person B for a job as they don't have the qualifications that I want, but they only don't have those qualifications because they were never given the chance to get them in the first place because of an ism.
Is it an ism to pay someone in this country £n less than someone else for doing the same job? Is it ok to import goods where the goods were made by someone being paid £n less?
I had a poor attempt at this on the ists and isms bit. I personally think this is a minefield and there is such a clouding of the issues. Power and isms - where does one start and the other one end? Is stopping access to power an ism? Are all isms just a manifestation of control and power?
Do you think that social media should no longer be anonymous? That even though you post under a false name - like Posy- your true identity is available to the authorities. OR even that you post under your true name? Would this inhibit hate speech or endanger the innocent?
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Obviously it doesn't stop some fans being racist, but it does seem quite effective at getting them to announce themselves and as such we have a clearer idea of the problem.
I feel some people bend over backwards to overcomplicate the issue.
I've seen comments from black England fans that they feel more included in the game this year. It's heartening that the team have got behind the gesture and from all the behind the scenes footage, appear to live by the message.
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Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.