@mac12, doubt it is of interest, but none of members of any of committees related to acute care in COVID get paid. It should also be said, that HMG are regularly told things they really don't want to hear, the medical staff are beholden to no one and the scientists that I know are the same.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
The 3 posts above seem to be aimed at me so I'll try to answer a few points I have never said punkdoc or anyone else shouldn't speak on this thread Why should I provide evidence to support what I say but others don't? I will only ask for evidence when someone is saying I'm wrong evidence that I never saw. I don't think anyone has put any counter argument to any point I've made Punkdoc that's interesting I always thought that the government advisors got paid I have never wanted to upset anyone but I find it unbelievable that so many people are so worried about something that they have no control over. I look at things differently and question what I'm told I've only had 1 vaccine as at the beginning that's what I was told I needed I have never worn a mask as I don't know what good they do
People are afraid of catching Covid from unvaccinated people that refuse to wear a mask and don't care about spreading the virus to others. People have control by limiting their exposure to situations that might involve this.
You said people shouldn't listen to Punkdoc because you considered that he wasn't an expert in anything and you said his posts were meaningless.
You said death certificates used to say 'died of old age' and now doctors have been told to 'put every death down to covid whatever the cause'. This is misinformation and you have no evidence to support it. You were given evidence that 'died of old age' has never been acceptable as a cause of death, but you ignored this. The ONS has clear guidance about how they use death certificate data and it separates Covid as a cause or as a factor (section 5 in the link) https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/coronavirusandmortalityinenglandandwalesmethodology
As was said before, having your own opinion is fine but you're spreading misinformation and telling people to put themselves at risk based on things that aren't true. Saying 'Covid is only something to worry about if you're over 82 and you'd probably die at that age anyway' is a pretty flimsy interpretation of the impacts of the pandemic. You've been given evidence of the data regarding Long Covid and you've ignored it. Someone gave you a first-hand account of their son having to spend 2 months in hospital and live with long-term health problems caused by Covid. You brushed that off as an unusual case, again with no evidence. Do you know any self employed people who would be happy to be unable to work for 2 months or more? Is tying up a hospital bed for 2 months an acceptable part of people ignoring Covid?
You said SAGE was paid by the Government to tell them what they wanted to hear and the government selected members to suit their agenda. Again misinformation. SAGE is a cross-party advisory board that selects its own members based on qualifications and the Government doesn't have to act on their advice. Punkdoc knows this because he's a member and we trust him because of this.
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
Wild edges I'll try to answer some of your points Not many people are afraid of catching covid if they were then they would be wearing masks when outside but maybe 1 in a 1000 do the day the government said they didn't need them everyone stopped Regarding punkdoc he said that the rise in hospital admissions and therefore serious illness and death are going to start dramatically escalating, when I asked him how many people are in hospital with pure covid he replied it's not possible to say that to me makes his post meaningless. Death certificates would say cause of death such as cancer this changed to covid. You say about the ONS is this the same ONS who at the beginning of this year released figures for deaths just from covid as something like 17000 in a 20 month period lots of people didn't like being told this so the ONS had to withdraw it after that I struggle with ONS figures. I think that there is a difference between dying with covid and from covid Regarding masks I only know what I'm told and what I read The average age of death from covid is 82 It is unusual for a healthy lad to become seriously ill with covid I don't know any self employed people who would be happy having 2 months off work with covid but I work for a nationwide company who pay full sick pay and they had loads off work every week with covid until the government said it didn't need reporting and the company stopped paying now nobody off with covid I did think government advisors were paid to advise and I'm surprised they work for free
But isn't Covid a pandemic? You can argue whatever you like about how the Gov here handled the pandemic (how fast they were at reacting...how slow..how prepared they were...etc), but it was a pandemic. Other countries also experienced the same thing and in general, had the same issues (which were tackled in what appeared to be to me, similar ways - with the odd exceptions). Given that, are you arguing that medical science around the world was in cahoots with their local governments to massage the data/stats? Around the globe scientists were being paid to express opinions that confirmed each governments stand point?
Wasn't the problem all along NHS resource? Does it matter which age group has the highest mortality rate? Didn't the 1918 flu pandemic kill younger people? But isn't that largely irrelevant as in both cases what happens is that the NHS (or whatever health system is/was in place) gets swamped with seriously ill people that then take up resource - thereby denying that resource to others.
Scientific advice should change as more data become(s) available. That is what science does - it catalogues cause/effect - so as more data becomes available, more cause/effect links are detected and old links lost and the advice changes. There should be no such thing as dogmatic science. Mask wearing - is then a case. Originally I recall the scientists here saying that masks weren't essential at the briefings and there wasn't an argument for them. That opinion changed with time and evidence.
As for vaccinations - aren't some of them a bit like anaesthetic? They wear off. Imagine you're on an operating table and you've had a dose of anaesthetic. Grand. The surgeon operates - but then that dose starts to wear off. You now feel pain again. Not grand. It would be stupid not to have more anaesthetic wouldn't it? The anaesthetist will top up the dose. Isn't that what happens with vaccines? Why only have 1 dose when the advice is to have boosters? If you took the advice to have a vaccine in the first place, you presumably bought into the fact that it was beneficial. So why no booster? Aren't the same people who told you vaccines worked, the same people who said that boosters were required?
Thank you from me too @punkdoc I'm always grateful for your help and advice. We haven't stopped wearing masks when out. And still very careful of where we go.
Posts
It should also be said, that HMG are regularly told things they really don't want to hear, the medical staff are beholden to no one and the scientists that I know are the same.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
I have never said punkdoc or anyone else shouldn't speak on this thread
Why should I provide evidence to support what I say but others don't? I will only ask for evidence when someone is saying I'm wrong evidence that I never saw. I don't think anyone has put any counter argument to any point I've made
Punkdoc that's interesting I always thought that the government advisors got paid
I have never wanted to upset anyone but I find it unbelievable that so many people are so worried about something that they have no control over. I look at things differently and question what I'm told I've only had 1 vaccine as at the beginning that's what I was told I needed I have never worn a mask as I don't know what good they do
Not many people are afraid of catching covid if they were then they would be wearing masks when outside but maybe 1 in a 1000 do the day the government said they didn't need them everyone stopped
Regarding punkdoc he said that the rise in hospital admissions and therefore serious illness and death are going to start dramatically escalating, when I asked him how many people are in hospital with pure covid he replied it's not possible to say that to me makes his post meaningless.
Death certificates would say cause of death such as cancer this changed to covid.
You say about the ONS is this the same ONS who at the beginning of this year released figures for deaths just from covid as something like 17000 in a 20 month period lots of people didn't like being told this so the ONS had to withdraw it after that I struggle with ONS figures. I think that there is a difference between dying with covid and from covid
Regarding masks I only know what I'm told and what I read
The average age of death from covid is 82
It is unusual for a healthy lad to become seriously ill with covid
I don't know any self employed people who would be happy having 2 months off work with covid but I work for a nationwide company who pay full sick pay and they had loads off work every week with covid until the government said it didn't need reporting and the company stopped paying now nobody off with covid
I did think government advisors were paid to advise and I'm surprised they work for free
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I'm always grateful for your help and advice.
We haven't stopped wearing masks when out. And still very careful of where we go.