That’s a strong argument, @raisingirl, and it is difficult for someone not in the minority group to pass comment. But if I was in the quandary of whether to have the vaccine or not I think I would find it hard to believe my teenage son’s mate whose cousin knows this doctor who says that .... No matter how much I distrust the government, and the BBC, and all the other broadcasting stations, and the national newspapers, and the NHS, I am certain I would still be thinking twice when I see photos of the Queen and Prime Minister being vaccinated. But, maybe still hesitating, I would respect the voices of preeminent members of my community such as Sir Lenny Henry who says ignore the lies and take the vaccine.
Frankly, if folk still followed hearsay in making their decisions rather than overwhelming evidence I have no sympathy if they fall foul of passport restrictions that keep the rest of us safe.
But where do you put your 'faith'?...who do you trust?
If I had a religious 'faith', would I take on board what Lenny Henry says over what my 'faith' group is saying?
It would be interesting to know what the vaccine uptake is in the UK 'white' underclass - and whether that 'underclass' has any religious leanings. Is it about being poor, downtrodden and abused at all? Is it just where you place your trust when getting information?
The only problem I see with covid vaccination passports/certificates to allow access to certain events and services, is that until everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine, it could be seen as age discrimination.
The Covid vaccine is, to my knowledge, voluntary in the vast majority of cases. Despite one's moral stance everybody (or at least the majority) is free to choose to have the vaccine or not. Making a vaccine passport or certificate mandatory or a legal requirement to allow you to live your life in as close a possible way prior to Covid, to all intents and purposes makes the vaccine itself mandatory. The vaccine is either a voluntary option or it's not.
There are huge problems with a vaccine "passport". We have been told that it might be necessary for entry to pubs and restaurants. Cue the outcry that it would be unworkable/discriminatory/age-ist etc. Rein back on that, and "suggest" that it might be better for large gathering of ... um ... well, let's say the football cup final. Or maybe a festival. Or something. Cue a huge sigh of relief. Well - it could have been worse. And thus are we led to give up our long-standing notion of civil liberty. No difference (really?) from a Covid certificate and an ID card? "Ausweiss, bitte". Or, perhaps (and I have seen serious proposals on this) we could be microchipped when vaccinated. So that's an up-dated form of a tattoo on the forearm. I despair, I really do. I have had the first (and await my second) vaccination. It is a matter of choice, and it could be argued that it is a civic duty to have a vaccination unless there are good reasons against it. I remember only too well the prevalence of childhood illnesses like mumps and measles. Polio was a huge scare in the fifties and early sixties. Vaccination was a godsend - likewise the smallpox vaccine. But none of these was a way of controlling or manipulating the population. I see Covid Passports as doing just that, and I worry that people have been so compliant in ceding their civil liberties to the "authorities". As for drawing a similarity between those who voted to leave the EU and those who refuse the vaccine - I have yet to see empirical evidence. My own experience is that there is no correlation, and that many of my contacts have breathed a sigh of relief at not having to try to defend the indefensible behaviour of those called "friends" in Europe (and they voted to leave or, in respect of relatives, actually live in Belgium and Germany). The Behavioural Scientists have had a field day. The experiment to control a population (only a dream hitherto) will allow them to dine out for many a long year on the results of mass manipulation.
On average 17000 died from seasonal flu between 2014 & 2019 in the UK (source PHE). I had my flu jab last November. By choice, I didn't have to. No mention of a flu passport or advice to wear a mask even though transmission is via airborne droplets. Is it that we are now so used to flu being a regular seasonal occurence that we perceive the risk as being that much lower? Or has media coverage got something to do with it? Just a thought.
I have no problem with a library card, a supermarket loyalty card, a bus pass, a driver's licence, a credit card, a debit card , a passport, an art pass , an rhs membership card, membership cards for various societies I suspect that interested parties could learn more about my lifestyle and proclivities from my supermarket loyalty card than they would ever get from my vaccine passport.
Your civil liberties, do not entitle you to put others lives at risk, in particular those who would have to care for you, should you catch the virus. There is nothing nazi about carrying a national identity card, as a foreigner I carried one for a year whilst working in Holland, it is not a means of control.
Are driving licenses discriminatory, or passports?
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
Driving licenses and passports are not, of themselves, a means of controlling the population in general.
We all like to think that we live in a society with a benign government, dependent on the frequent democratic voting system. Well - unless you factor in the extremism of hatred and vitriol for Boris (for whom I hold no brief, by the way) or the regular denegration of politicians in general, or the Tory party specifically (for whom I hold no brief, by the way), there is nothing to fear.
Just imagine a government led by Corbyn, and wonder at the state we would be in. Wonder at whether or not "Big Pharma", nationalised and emasculated, would have brought about dramatic vaccine results.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. The Covid passport, or whatever euphemism you care to ascribe to it, is but a whisker away from state control. We might just as well demand a brightly coloured star to be worn at all times to signify vaccine compliance.
Posts
Frankly, if folk still followed hearsay in making their decisions rather than overwhelming evidence I have no sympathy if they fall foul of passport restrictions that keep the rest of us safe.
https://www.interfaith.org.uk/news/covid-19-and-vaccination#
Cue a huge sigh of relief. Well - it could have been worse.
And thus are we led to give up our long-standing notion of civil liberty.
No difference (really?) from a Covid certificate and an ID card?
"Ausweiss, bitte".
Or, perhaps (and I have seen serious proposals on this) we could be microchipped when vaccinated. So that's an up-dated form of a tattoo on the forearm.
I despair, I really do.
I have had the first (and await my second) vaccination. It is a matter of choice, and it could be argued that it is a civic duty to have a vaccination unless there are good reasons against it.
I remember only too well the prevalence of childhood illnesses like mumps and measles. Polio was a huge scare in the fifties and early sixties. Vaccination was a godsend - likewise the smallpox vaccine.
But none of these was a way of controlling or manipulating the population. I see Covid Passports as doing just that, and I worry that people have been so compliant in ceding their civil liberties to the "authorities".
As for drawing a similarity between those who voted to leave the EU and those who refuse the vaccine - I have yet to see empirical evidence. My own experience is that there is no correlation, and that many of my contacts have breathed a sigh of relief at not having to try to defend the indefensible behaviour of those called "friends" in Europe (and they voted to leave or, in respect of relatives, actually live in Belgium and Germany).
The Behavioural Scientists have had a field day. The experiment to control a population (only a dream hitherto) will allow them to dine out for many a long year on the results of mass manipulation.
I had my flu jab last November. By choice, I didn't have to. No mention of a flu passport or advice to wear a mask even though transmission is via airborne droplets.
Is it that we are now so used to flu being a regular seasonal occurence that we perceive the risk as being that much lower? Or has media coverage got something to do with it?
Just a thought.
I suspect that interested parties could learn more about my lifestyle and proclivities from my supermarket loyalty card than they would ever get from my vaccine passport.
There is nothing nazi about carrying a national identity card, as a foreigner I carried one for a year whilst working in Holland, it is not a means of control.
Are driving licenses discriminatory, or passports?
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
We all like to think that we live in a society with a benign government, dependent on the frequent democratic voting system. Well - unless you factor in the extremism of hatred and vitriol for Boris (for whom I hold no brief, by the way) or the regular denegration of politicians in general, or the Tory party specifically (for whom I hold no brief, by the way), there is nothing to fear.
Just imagine a government led by Corbyn, and wonder at the state we would be in. Wonder at whether or not "Big Pharma", nationalised and emasculated, would have brought about dramatic vaccine results.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. The Covid passport, or whatever euphemism you care to ascribe to it, is but a whisker away from state control. We might just as well demand a brightly coloured star to be worn at all times to signify vaccine compliance.
Sorry, Shrinking Violet, but I regard that as hyperbolic tosh.