Has anyone ever heard the story of someone going to the doctor with a sore throat, feeling run down and listless and the doctor saying that there's a virus going around? Guess what there's a virus going around don't panic, don't let the BBC make you feel that you are going to die you probably won't.
This is the flaw in your position. I understand what you’re saying and why you’d say that, but nobody I’ve heard with any credibility is advising people to “assume it is everywhere”...because it isn’t.
It may or may not be everywhere in the future. But it isn’t now. As a professor on R4 said in the last hour when asked if the audience was brave to come to the show he said “it would be brave if it was circulating here, but it isn’t circulating in the UK, and certainly not in Horsham.”
But you're washing your hands because the assumption is that the virus may be on everything aren't you? If you don't assume that, then you don't need to wash your hands anyway. And if you assume that the virus is on any 'foreign' object, then it is potentially on anything you bring into your house. Highly unlikely at this stage with the limited outbreak, but as (if) the virus spreads, it will be one of the ways it spreads.
It's neither paranoia nor hysteria - it's why you are being told to wash your hands - but you need to think.
If I may - no we aren’t washing our hands on the assumption it’s on everything.
If it was on everything we would either hide in our bedrooms crying and rocking ourselves gently, or we would go out and embrace it. Because if it is everywhere, then you can’t escape it.
There are several unknown factors, and while they are unknown taking additional control steps particularly ones that cost nothing is a reasonable precaution. That is absolutely not the same as assuming it is everywhere.
This is why senior medical professionals have made the very particular statements that they have made, and why they haven’t said other things.
Flu does not kill 700 000 people a year in the UK.
No, it's typically less than 1000 although apparently there have been bad years when there's an unexpected new strain and it's been more than 10x that.
There seem to be 3 big differences between flu and CV19 1. Flu is airborne - you can catch it from someone quite a long way from you (especially if you're sharing the air in a recirculating air system, like a plane). That doesn't seem to be the case at the moment with CV19. So that's a plus.
On the other hand 2. There is significant immunity in the population as a whole to almost every strain of flu whereas there is zero immunity to CV19 and 3. There are vaccines for flu that can be rolled out very quickly even if a new strain emerges. There is no vaccine for CV19 and not likely to be for at least a year.
If you read/watch explanations of how herd immunity affects disease spread you'll know that the second two points are the problem and the reason why this is very serious.
I'm honestly not underestimating the problem, I just think the level of panic now is out of proportion to the threat now. I can't stop work for 6 months and it may take that long for this to play out. I will take a decision to keep off public transport in due course, but we're not there yet. My worry is that ramping up concern today may lead to a sort of epidemic ennui so that by the time it really IS bad, people are either no longer willing or are simply unable to take the necessary avoiding action.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Don't blame the BBC, they are being very responsible in their reporting. It is total nonsense to talk about where the virus isn't, we have no idea. Whilst I agree with some of what you say @raisingirl, avoiding discussing the issue leads to complacency. I am probably more worried than a "normal", person, because I am immunocompromised, but I have also seen first hand what can happen and I think a degree of fear is not only healthy, but the correct response. Senior medical professionals are worried, which is why people like me have been asked to return to work, not to care for the sick, but to plan how we will cope when we run out of critical care beds.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
As a professor on R4 said in the last hour when asked if the audience
was brave to come to the show he said “it would be brave if it was
circulating here, but it isn’t circulating in the UK, and certainly not
in Horsham.”
Perhaps he was a professor of literature or ceramics.
As a professor on R4 said in the last hour when asked if the audience
was brave to come to the show he said “it would be brave if it was
circulating here, but it isn’t circulating in the UK, and certainly not
in Horsham.”
Perhaps he was a professor of literature or ceramics.
Or perhaps there is a difference between people having the disease in the UK and it being “in circulation” ?
Don't blame the BBC, they are being very responsible in their reporting.
yes and no. The reporting of the central issue has been very measured, especially Fergus Walsh I think. But the amount of peripheral stuff - I mean things like all the sports coverage and footballers not shaking hands before matches - means that overall the coverage of this is taking up most of every main bulletin and other serious matters - like the Turkey/Russia situation in Syria and the knock on to Greece - are getting much less air time than those situations warrant. I understand that's because there's nothing ordinary people can do about it, whereas if people understand about hand washing it may make a real difference. But somehow, from somewhere, a creeping panic seems to be happening. The loo roll insanity being a case in point - a marketing gimmick by a company in Oz leads to supermarkets in the UK selling out - it's bonkers.
As a wise man (K) once said, "a person is smart; people are dumb panicky animals". The local news had a story tonight about physical attacks on Chinese and other Asian people as a result of corona virus panic. It's probably not the BBC's fault. But it's definitely out there.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
But he probably didn't have any symptoms. If you feel OK, the powers that be say to carry on as normal. Asymptomatic carriers are the ones spreading it, probably unknowingly. The ill ones are at home or in Hospital. Two baggage handlers at Heathrow have it. How many cases have they touched? where are all those bags now? Will the baggage handlers at the other end of the flight get it as well?
I think all we can do is avoid crowded situations, and keep washing hands.
Posts
It may or may not be everywhere in the future. But it isn’t now. As a professor on R4 said in the last hour when asked if the audience was brave to come to the show he said “it would be brave if it was circulating here, but it isn’t circulating in the UK, and certainly not in Horsham.”
If it was on everything we would either hide in our bedrooms crying and rocking ourselves gently, or we would go out and embrace it. Because if it is everywhere, then you can’t escape it.
There are several unknown factors, and while they are unknown taking additional control steps particularly ones that cost nothing is a reasonable precaution. That is absolutely not the same as assuming it is everywhere.
This is why senior medical professionals have made the very particular statements that they have made, and why they haven’t said other things.
There seem to be 3 big differences between flu and CV19
1. Flu is airborne - you can catch it from someone quite a long way from you (especially if you're sharing the air in a recirculating air system, like a plane). That doesn't seem to be the case at the moment with CV19. So that's a plus.
On the other hand
2. There is significant immunity in the population as a whole to almost every strain of flu whereas there is zero immunity to CV19 and
3. There are vaccines for flu that can be rolled out very quickly even if a new strain emerges. There is no vaccine for CV19 and not likely to be for at least a year.
If you read/watch explanations of how herd immunity affects disease spread you'll know that the second two points are the problem and the reason why this is very serious.
I'm honestly not underestimating the problem, I just think the level of panic now is out of proportion to the threat now. I can't stop work for 6 months and it may take that long for this to play out. I will take a decision to keep off public transport in due course, but we're not there yet. My worry is that ramping up concern today may lead to a sort of epidemic ennui so that by the time it really IS bad, people are either no longer willing or are simply unable to take the necessary avoiding action.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
It is total nonsense to talk about where the virus isn't, we have no idea.
Whilst I agree with some of what you say @raisingirl, avoiding discussing the issue leads to complacency.
I am probably more worried than a "normal", person, because I am immunocompromised, but I have also seen first hand what can happen and I think a degree of fear is not only healthy, but the correct response.
Senior medical professionals are worried, which is why people like me have been asked to return to work, not to care for the sick, but to plan how we will cope when we run out of critical care beds.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
As a wise man (K) once said, "a person is smart; people are dumb panicky animals". The local news had a story tonight about physical attacks on Chinese and other Asian people as a result of corona virus panic. It's probably not the BBC's fault. But it's definitely out there.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”