Oh wow, thanks for that - I've been searching for ages trying to find an actual photo of a rose growing in shade similar to my situation but unsuccessfully. They look great and very healthy.
Although my fence receives very little direct sun the area is still quite 'bright' shade because it's open to the sky.
are both of those fine in terms of diseases without direct sun?
this means I may well be ordering a third rose now!
If I'm planting one in the middle to grow across a fence (the area is two fence panels wide must be about 4 metres) so it will be fanned out horizontally and up to 6ft high. Do I need to look for a rose whose stated max height is the same as the total width of the area I want to cover? Or does it need to be more?
...You need not worry too much about your shady aspect, as like mine, it's open shade, as long as there are no trees or large shrubs, they are they worst to have around roses... unless you're growing them into trees of course, but they are different types anyway... if the shade is from a fence or building, I never see this as a problem for the roses I grow..
...as for the height and width... yes you train the rose across the fence, so if you see a height stated as growing to 20 feet, then once it reaches towards the top of the fence, you train it sideways, 10 foot each way from the middle.. however this is not an exact science, and roses will often grow much larger than they state on websites.. for a 6 foot fence, stretching to 4 metres width wise, I'd be looking for something around the 12 to 15 foot height.. as the height becomes irrelevant to you... as an example, if you look at one of my photos above of the yellow rose along a fence, that rose is 'Lady Hillingdon'... on the Austin website linked below, you can see how this rose is normally grown, up a wall to 20 foot or so... I've gone differently, and managed to train it along a fence, so the 20 foot height is used lengthways... and I keep it about 10 foot width by careful pruning.. I could easily allow it to spread that 20 foot, but it would devour everything else, so I prune to shape... so don't be afraid of getting a larger rose and pruning it...
Here's some food for thought, just to confuse you further.. you can also train so called shrub roses as climbers/ short ramblers... just because a major vendor states a height and width say 5 x 5 foot, doesn't mean you have to grow it that way.. like I said it's not exact, these are only a guide...
..for example, the hybrid musk rose 'Cornelia' is shown as 5 x 5 foot on most sites...yes, you can grow it that way but I grow it as a short rambler along a fence which is 3 foot high by 10 foot wide.. photo below.. I know from experience that I could also train it upwards over an arch if I wanted, as it throws out a long 10 foot cane after 3 years... this is where some experience is useful... but you'll never see this rose amongst those recommended for archways... 'Buff Beauty' is another you can do this with..
..here's 'Lady of Shalott'... Austin's have this down as 4.5 foot by 4 foot... what do you think?... I know I could easily stretch this rose out to 10 foot width, it's at least 6 foot high and I could get 8 foot height from it if I didn't prune it... so 8 x 10 foot would be achievable if I wanted it.. I have to prune it to keep in bounds... so again, those measurements they state, should not be taken as gospel...
...here are a couple more, these are ramblers which can be kept in check.. 'Ghislaine de Feligonde'.. this blooms all summer, still flowering now.. it can be quite rampant stretching across a fence to 20 foot, but I keep it about 10..only a bit of it is shown here.. the fence is 6 foot high..
..another wonderful rambler/hybrid musk rose is 'Purple Skyliner'... this is an offspring of the better known, romantically named 'Veilchenblau', but it's much better than its parent which only flowers for 3 weeks.. this will still be flowering in October, and the blooms are larger... just a little shown here with 'Kew Gardens' [in itself a magnificent thornless shrub rose].. 'PS' is a great purple rose to mix with yellows and whites..
...don't be afraid of roses, they can do whatever you want them to do...
Thanks from me too, Marlorena. I had Ghislaine on my shortlist last year and still sort of want one, but it is squeezing them in. A close up photo made it look more thorny than described so I gave it a miss and got Malvern instead. Also I wondered if you have an opinion of Purple Skyliner fading to the same slatey blue shade Veilchenblau does. I tried Perennial Blue, but though it is nice, and repeats, just does not do it enough for me. Your photo looks closer. So I fight with Veilchenblau every year. Sorry to open poster Laguna, for jumping on your thread.
Hi Ruby.. thanks too.. I know what you mean about fading to a slatey grey... 'PS' sort of does that too... I found a photo to compare for you below, showing a spray of blooms hanging down, and as you can see some of them fade to that colour... I don't mind personally, because I enjoy the mixed tone effect on roses, so I don't mind the faded colours.. but yeah...not to everyone's taste that.. but I can't see the point of having 'Veilchenblau' when you can have 'PS'... for a rambler of this type...
You have some beautiful roses Marlorena . I have a few DA roses and Generous gardener is one of my favourites, I haven't found it to rampant rather slow to climb the pergola, my GG gets blackspot but its not so bad.
I have David Austin Roses, my favourite climbers are 'The Pilgrim' and 'Mortimer Sackler' the latter is a beautiful soft pink, almost thornless and an old fashioned scent. It has flowered well every year for the past 7 years, is just about disease free and repeat flowers well into early Winter. The Pilgrim does tend to get a bit of black spot, but is also a repeat flowerer and is perfumed. I also have 'Crown Princess Marguerita, but I'm a bit disappointed with it's performance.
Whatever you choose, enjoy your roses.
A gardener's work is never at an end - (John Evelyn 1620-1706)
@trishnew53 ..if your 'CPM' is new, it just needs more time... there's an old adage for these roses.. first year..sleep… second year they creep... third year they leap!... you will be rewarded I think. I used to have 'Mortimer Sackler'... lovely foliage too on that rose..
@Perki .thanks so much... My 'The GG' has taken off this year, 3rd year with long canes, it was fairly quiet up to this point, so just needed a bit of time, like so many do.. although I do have it planted in the same hole as another rose - I just know you wouldn't do that..lol..
I'm enjoying this thread. Very informative. I had a Malvern Hills in my last garden but it suffered with exposure to cold Siberian winds from the east. I've bought a new one for here and am very pleased to learn it will get bigger than DA says if it's happy.
My GG in Belgium was wonderful, as was Teasing Georgia and many others. I've brought Scarborough Fair, Jacqueline Du Pré, Geoff Hamilton, Munstead Wood, William Shakespeare, Benjamin Britten with me and several others including Graham Thomas who is a huge disappointment. Bought him several years ago and planted him in a pot to get his roots settled. Then I planted him out and he sulked so back in a pot he went where he promptly grew smaller. I planted him out last spring and he has sat at 9" high for months but produced 2 flower buds which I pinched out. I noticed yesterday he's grown another leaf stalk and is now almost a foot high. What is wrong with him?
In May we found we have a Veithcen wotsit in our hedge and it was glorious for 3 weeks. Can't find anyone selling Purple Skyliner tho. I'll stick to purple clems then.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Marlorena, I am so impressed with your depth of knowledge on roses. Seriously, have you ever thought of writing a book? I wish I knew what you know when I started planting roses in this garden, I might not have made so many mistakes.
Posts
Oh wow, thanks for that - I've been searching for ages trying to find an actual photo of a rose growing in shade similar to my situation but unsuccessfully. They look great and very healthy.
Although my fence receives very little direct sun the area is still quite 'bright' shade because it's open to the sky.
are both of those fine in terms of diseases without direct sun?
this means I may well be ordering a third rose now!
If I'm planting one in the middle to grow across a fence (the area is two fence panels wide must be about 4 metres) so it will be fanned out horizontally and up to 6ft high. Do I need to look for a rose whose stated max height is the same as the total width of the area I want to cover? Or does it need to be more?
thank you
...You need not worry too much about your shady aspect, as like mine, it's open shade, as long as there are no trees or large shrubs, they are they worst to have around roses... unless you're growing them into trees of course, but they are different types anyway... if the shade is from a fence or building, I never see this as a problem for the roses I grow..
...as for the height and width... yes you train the rose across the fence, so if you see a height stated as growing to 20 feet, then once it reaches towards the top of the fence, you train it sideways, 10 foot each way from the middle.. however this is not an exact science, and roses will often grow much larger than they state on websites.. for a 6 foot fence, stretching to 4 metres width wise, I'd be looking for something around the 12 to 15 foot height.. as the height becomes irrelevant to you... as an example, if you look at one of my photos above of the yellow rose along a fence, that rose is 'Lady Hillingdon'... on the Austin website linked below, you can see how this rose is normally grown, up a wall to 20 foot or so... I've gone differently, and managed to train it along a fence, so the 20 foot height is used lengthways... and I keep it about 10 foot width by careful pruning.. I could easily allow it to spread that 20 foot, but it would devour everything else, so I prune to shape... so don't be afraid of getting a larger rose and pruning it...
https://www.davidaustinroses.co.uk/lady-hillingdon
..for example, the hybrid musk rose 'Cornelia' is shown as 5 x 5 foot on most sites...yes, you can grow it that way but I grow it as a short rambler along a fence which is 3 foot high by 10 foot wide.. photo below.. I know from experience that I could also train it upwards over an arch if I wanted, as it throws out a long 10 foot cane after 3 years... this is where some experience is useful... but you'll never see this rose amongst those recommended for archways... 'Buff Beauty' is another you can do this with..
..here's 'Lady of Shalott'... Austin's have this down as 4.5 foot by 4 foot... what do you think?... I know I could easily stretch this rose out to 10 foot width, it's at least 6 foot high and I could get 8 foot height from it if I didn't prune it... so 8 x 10 foot would be achievable if I wanted it.. I have to prune it to keep in bounds... so again, those measurements they state, should not be taken as gospel...
...here are a couple more, these are ramblers which can be kept in check..
'Ghislaine de Feligonde'.. this blooms all summer, still flowering now.. it can be quite rampant stretching across a fence to 20 foot, but I keep it about 10..only a bit of it is shown here.. the fence is 6 foot high..
..another wonderful rambler/hybrid musk rose is 'Purple Skyliner'... this is an offspring of the better known, romantically named 'Veilchenblau', but it's much better than its parent which only flowers for 3 weeks.. this will still be flowering in October, and the blooms are larger... just a little shown here with 'Kew Gardens' [in itself a magnificent thornless shrub rose].. 'PS' is a great purple rose to mix with yellows and whites..
...don't be afraid of roses, they can do whatever you want them to do...
I had Ghislaine on my shortlist last year and still sort of want one, but it is squeezing them in. A close up photo made it look more thorny than described so I gave it a miss and got Malvern instead.
Also I wondered if you have an opinion of Purple Skyliner fading to the same slatey blue shade Veilchenblau does. I tried Perennial Blue, but though it is nice, and repeats, just does not do it enough for me. Your photo looks closer.
So I fight with Veilchenblau every year.
Sorry to open poster Laguna, for jumping on your thread.
Hi Ruby.. thanks too..
I know what you mean about fading to a slatey grey... 'PS' sort of does that too... I found a photo to compare for you below, showing a spray of blooms hanging down, and as you can see some of them fade to that colour... I don't mind personally, because I enjoy the mixed tone effect on roses, so I don't mind the faded colours.. but yeah...not to everyone's taste that.. but I can't see the point of having 'Veilchenblau' when you can have 'PS'... for a rambler of this type...
I also have 'Crown Princess Marguerita, but I'm a bit disappointed with it's performance.
Whatever you choose, enjoy your roses.
..if your 'CPM' is new, it just needs more time... there's an old adage for these roses.. first year..sleep… second year they creep... third year they leap!... you will be rewarded I think.
I used to have 'Mortimer Sackler'... lovely foliage too on that rose..
@Perki
.thanks so much... My 'The GG' has taken off this year, 3rd year with long canes, it was fairly quiet up to this point, so just needed a bit of time, like so many do.. although I do have it planted in the same hole as another rose - I just know you wouldn't do that..lol..
My GG in Belgium was wonderful, as was Teasing Georgia and many others. I've brought Scarborough Fair, Jacqueline Du Pré, Geoff Hamilton, Munstead Wood, William Shakespeare, Benjamin Britten with me and several others including Graham Thomas who is a huge disappointment. Bought him several years ago and planted him in a pot to get his roots settled. Then I planted him out and he sulked so back in a pot he went where he promptly grew smaller. I planted him out last spring and he has sat at 9" high for months but produced 2 flower buds which I pinched out. I noticed yesterday he's grown another leaf stalk and is now almost a foot high. What is wrong with him?
In May we found we have a Veithcen wotsit in our hedge and it was glorious for 3 weeks. Can't find anyone selling Purple Skyliner tho. I'll stick to purple clems then.