I largely stayed out of the previous thread as it rapidly descended into personal attacks on a valued member of the forum, with many bitchy, patronising comments, so my heart sank when I saw yet another thread on this topic.
History has a habit of repeating itself....
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Hello and welcome Kate, nice to have new people joining us!
I know that the last thread did annoy some of us, but others found it useful or interesting. Surely we are mature enough to self regulate what we read I've banned myself from watching the news as its not impartial in my opinion, I read what I chose to inform me...none of which are government leaflets!
Why do the remain campaign insist on saying immigrants will be "sent home" and the NHS ruined if the vote to leave goes through, this is patently not true.
There has been a lot of immigration long before we joined the EU which has worked out just fine, in the 60's and 70's hospitals were largely run by Irish and West Indian nurses and often doctors too - especially Indian doctors.
My own family came here from Italy in the 1960's to work and my stepfather who is Mauritian and a good many of his countrymen and women happily came here in the 1960's to go to university and then take up jobs as accountants, doctors and so on.
People will continue to come here and work and live. nobody is going to get "sent home" when they are doing essential work like NHS work. It does make me cross to hear this kind of nonsense.
The hospital I work in has long recruited nurses from the Phillipines and mainland Europe to cover the shortage and will continue to do so in the future regardless of how the referendum goes.
Immigration to England has been going on from mediaeval times and earlier and will continue to do so as long as there is a need.
I didn't see the last thread, had a read, was 'interesting' but without much fact. The only thing that is fact is that currently we are in the eu.
I like it how Mr Burns puts it: 'Stay in the eu,or (rubs hands together for dramatic effect) open the box'.* I've never been one for taking too much risk, so it's better the devil you know for me. I'm IN.
*Maybe he said this or maybe he didn't, but it's the kind of thing he would say ?
It is over run because people go to A&E for colds, flu, splinters instead of using their noggin and taking an aspirin or going to their pharmacy or GP and leaving A&E to deal withreal accidents and emergencies.
It is over run on the wards because of so many avoidable illnesses resulting from smoking, obesity, bad nutrition. If you buy a car and fill it with the wrong fuel the engine seizes up. If you don't change the oil and air filter regularly the motor doesn't work properly. Same with the human body - it needs regular maintenance and correct fuel. Better education and more personal responsibility would solve a lot of that waste of both lives and NHS resources.
There are also beds blocked because people can't go home because there aren't the people to care for them - meals, dressing changes, physio..... In the UK that is deemed to be social care and is run by local councils who are strapped for cash and close them down. Needs to be joined up and made efficient.
You go to an NHS hospital and no-one asks if you're costs will be covered by the fact that you are a UK citizen with right of residence and thus free care, or an EU citizen whose costs will be reimbursed by their health system or a rich foreigner whose private insurance should pay. The NHS could recover millions every year from health tourists but doesn't even try.
Medicine is evolving all the time and more and more can be done to enhance and/or prolong life but all that technology and pharmaceutical advances comes at great expense. When the NHS was born barely anyone dreamed of such things as heart transplants, knee replacements and all those other revolutionary procedures we now take for granted.
It's a shame that NHS management and delivery systems haven't evolved at the same pace - but that's nothing to do with being in our out of the EU..
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
The NHS is the 5th largest employer in the world. It is unable to recruit the staff it needs from within the UK.
Do you know that 10% of NHS doctors and 4% of NHS nurses are from the EU? Do you seriously think waiting times will reduce if they all have to go home?
To the best of my knowledge, nobody from the Out campaign has suggested that foreign nationals already working here are going to be kicked out. The desire is to be able to control immigration from everywhere in the world and not have half a billion people given free access to the country.
This country has always had immigration, and will always have immigration. The simple reality is that uncontrolled immigration has stretched the NHS, public services, housing etc to breaking point and beyond.
The NHS issues have zip to do with immigration, it is all due to funding and that lies at the feet of the government of the day, no one else.
The unpleasant, and in some cases bigoted, side of far too many posters have been shown through discussing this on here. I firmly believe that even I at 46 am pretty much too old to be allowed to be involved in this decision, it should have been a choice for the young only.
Public services are stretched to breaking point simply because successive governments and local authorities get elected by promising to keep taxes down and being disingenuous about what the services really cost to run. We expect more and more from the same (or less) money. It's as simple as that. The Great British Public votes with its pocket rather than its brain
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Posts
Totally agree punkdoc.
That's why I posted the link from the previous thread. Pretty much said it all.
I largely stayed out of the previous thread as it rapidly descended into personal attacks on a valued member of the forum, with many bitchy, patronising comments, so my heart sank when I saw yet another thread on this topic.
History has a habit of repeating itself....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Hello and welcome Kate, nice to have new people joining us!
I know that the last thread did annoy some of us, but others found it useful or interesting. Surely we are mature enough to self regulate what we read
I've banned myself from watching the news as its not impartial in my opinion, I read what I chose to inform me...none of which are government leaflets! 
Why do the remain campaign insist on saying immigrants will be "sent home" and the NHS ruined if the vote to leave goes through, this is patently not true.
There has been a lot of immigration long before we joined the EU which has worked out just fine, in the 60's and 70's hospitals were largely run by Irish and West Indian nurses and often doctors too - especially Indian doctors.
My own family came here from Italy in the 1960's to work and my stepfather who is Mauritian and a good many of his countrymen and women happily came here in the 1960's to go to university and then take up jobs as accountants, doctors and so on.
People will continue to come here and work and live. nobody is going to get "sent home" when they are doing essential work like NHS work. It does make me cross to hear this kind of nonsense.
The hospital I work in has long recruited nurses from the Phillipines and mainland Europe to cover the shortage and will continue to do so in the future regardless of how the referendum goes.
Immigration to England has been going on from mediaeval times and earlier and will continue to do so as long as there is a need.
I didn't see the last thread, had a read, was 'interesting' but without much fact. The only thing that is fact is that currently we are in the eu.
I like it how Mr Burns puts it: 'Stay in the eu,or (rubs hands together for dramatic effect) open the box'.* I've never been one for taking too much risk, so it's better the devil you know for me. I'm IN.
*Maybe he said this or maybe he didn't, but it's the kind of thing he would say ?
Last edited: 12 June 2016 10:31:25
It is over run because people go to A&E for colds, flu, splinters instead of using their noggin and taking an aspirin or going to their pharmacy or GP and leaving A&E to deal withreal accidents and emergencies.
It is over run on the wards because of so many avoidable illnesses resulting from smoking, obesity, bad nutrition. If you buy a car and fill it with the wrong fuel the engine seizes up. If you don't change the oil and air filter regularly the motor doesn't work properly. Same with the human body - it needs regular maintenance and correct fuel. Better education and more personal responsibility would solve a lot of that waste of both lives and NHS resources.
There are also beds blocked because people can't go home because there aren't the people to care for them - meals, dressing changes, physio..... In the UK that is deemed to be social care and is run by local councils who are strapped for cash and close them down. Needs to be joined up and made efficient.
You go to an NHS hospital and no-one asks if you're costs will be covered by the fact that you are a UK citizen with right of residence and thus free care, or an EU citizen whose costs will be reimbursed by their health system or a rich foreigner whose private insurance should pay. The NHS could recover millions every year from health tourists but doesn't even try.
Medicine is evolving all the time and more and more can be done to enhance and/or prolong life but all that technology and pharmaceutical advances comes at great expense. When the NHS was born barely anyone dreamed of such things as heart transplants, knee replacements and all those other revolutionary procedures we now take for granted.
It's a shame that NHS management and delivery systems haven't evolved at the same pace - but that's nothing to do with being in our out of the EU..
To the best of my knowledge, nobody from the Out campaign has suggested that foreign nationals already working here are going to be kicked out. The desire is to be able to control immigration from everywhere in the world and not have half a billion people given free access to the country.
This country has always had immigration, and will always have immigration. The simple reality is that uncontrolled immigration has stretched the NHS, public services, housing etc to breaking point and beyond.
No. It. Hasn't.
The NHS issues have zip to do with immigration, it is all due to funding and that lies at the feet of the government of the day, no one else.
The unpleasant, and in some cases bigoted, side of far too many posters have been shown through discussing this on here. I firmly believe that even I at 46 am pretty much too old to be allowed to be involved in this decision, it should have been a choice for the young only.
Public services are stretched to breaking point simply because successive governments and local authorities get elected by promising to keep taxes down and being disingenuous about what the services really cost to run. We expect more and more from the same (or less) money. It's as simple as that. The Great British Public votes with its pocket rather than its brain
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Dove, shame this isn't Facebook as I'd have clicked like.