I tried to read the original thread, but gave up. Considering UKIP was and probably still is pretty much a single issue party, I'd have hoped for a better clarity of debate. I don't think the average Joe is equipped enough to make the decision, or even should be making this decision. It puzzles me as to why we are even having a referendum. I doubt we'd have been given it, unless it wasn't a full gone conclusion.
Nothing like a good bit of xenophobia to stir up the us and them mentality. Moan about democracy abroad while our own is damn right awful. It's a convenient smokescreen. Meanwhile Rome burns. Let's just all eschew personal responsibility.
I don't see why basic needs can't be met for most of our citizens. Food, shelter and basic medicine/health care isn't that tough a nut to crack. The cost of shelter is shocking. Most of our personal income goes towards our housing costs, fuel and food.
I've been out with my partner twice this year to the pub, where we drank but one pint of beer. And in many ways we have it way better than others. We struggle, but don't blame that on the EU or migrants. I think people should look closer to home for the causes of social ills.
To hold up Spain and Greece as examples of what being a member of the EU does, is as facile as holding up Germany. There are other factors.
"Austrailian point system"?? Who is going to pick crops at 5am if we don't have migrants, it's a simple fact that Brits just don't apply for the jobs. The NFU ( hardly a leftist organisation) reported a year or two ago that £13,000,000 of perfectly good food was ploughed into the ground because NOBODY applied for the jobs to harvest it.
How many care home are almost entirely staffed by migrants for the same reason?
The elephant in the room is that there is a significant number of Brits who think that sitting at home , breeding, claiming benefits and watching Jeremy Kyle is a worthwhile career choice. Scrap child benefit and some of them would have to go out and work, and some of the wrong sort of migrants wouldn't come here. Win win.
"we could have a trade agreement like Norway" Norway had to agree to unlimited flow of workers to get their agreement, no stopping migrants that way.
"we're such an important market they'll give us a good trade agreement" there are over 20 countries in the EU who will be able to veto any agreement. Give me one reason, why one single country would be interested in giving us an agreement which is even as good as we have now.
We will be shafted at every given opportunity.
I have friends who are in senior management of 2 multinational companies, ( One electronics and one pharmaceutical ) they have both been told " privately " that if it's OUT, their jobs will move to EU countries as there will be such upheaval they'd be mad to stay and see how it pans out. Who can blame a business for that?
The EU , and the NHS ( I've always been able to get a GP appointment the same day) for that matter,are both flawed, but I'd rather have them, with the hope they can be fixed, than dump them.
Gove, IDS and Bojo have all said in the past , in various forms, that the NHS ought to be scrapped, or paid for by insurance. Does anyone really think they care about it now?
"£350m " could" be spent on the NHS" "could" !!!! £350m "could" be shared out between us all. It doesn't mean either "will" happen, but they "could"
Schools in Devon are being closed due to lack of pupils. Maybe if we didn't have such a LondonCentic economy , many of our problems would vanish.
Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin both want us to leave, why? they want a weaker Europe. I'd rather be in a stronger Europe.
I don't see what is wrong with the example of Greece or Spain. Both of them are absolutely incontrovertible proof that membership does not guarantee economic success, not by a long way. Surely that is the whole purpose of the EU? So why join in the first place? Why can't we simply trade freely with other countries without all the bureaucracy that almost nobody actually understands, and without any artificial barriers?
I am a great believer in the KISS principle - keep it simple, stupid. Why do we need ten thousand officials earning more than David Cameron? What good have they done us since we joined?
The UK has been in the EU for over 40 years ...... it is a relatively small island and is now the 5th largest economy in the world .... how much better can it get???
Last edited: 13 June 2016 14:00:27
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Posts
Oh dear. All too true Dove.
I tried to read the original thread, but gave up. Considering UKIP was and probably still is pretty much a single issue party, I'd have hoped for a better clarity of debate. I don't think the average Joe is equipped enough to make the decision, or even should be making this decision. It puzzles me as to why we are even having a referendum. I doubt we'd have been given it, unless it wasn't a full gone conclusion.
Nothing like a good bit of xenophobia to stir up the us and them mentality. Moan about democracy abroad while our own is damn right awful. It's a convenient smokescreen. Meanwhile Rome burns. Let's just all eschew personal responsibility.
I don't see why basic needs can't be met for most of our citizens. Food, shelter and basic medicine/health care isn't that tough a nut to crack. The cost of shelter is shocking. Most of our personal income goes towards our housing costs, fuel and food.
I've been out with my partner twice this year to the pub, where we drank but one pint of beer. And in many ways we have it way better than others. We struggle, but don't blame that on the EU or migrants. I think people should look closer to home for the causes of social ills.
I've really tried to avoid this one, but can't.
To hold up Spain and Greece as examples of what being a member of the EU does, is as facile as holding up Germany. There are other factors.
"Austrailian point system"?? Who is going to pick crops at 5am if we don't have migrants, it's a simple fact that Brits just don't apply for the jobs. The NFU ( hardly a leftist organisation) reported a year or two ago that £13,000,000 of perfectly good food was ploughed into the ground because NOBODY applied for the jobs to harvest it.
How many care home are almost entirely staffed by migrants for the same reason?
The elephant in the room is that there is a significant number of Brits who think that sitting at home , breeding, claiming benefits and watching Jeremy Kyle is a worthwhile career choice. Scrap child benefit and some of them would have to go out and work, and some of the wrong sort of migrants wouldn't come here. Win win.
"we could have a trade agreement like Norway" Norway had to agree to unlimited flow of workers to get their agreement, no stopping migrants that way.
"we're such an important market they'll give us a good trade agreement" there are over 20 countries in the EU who will be able to veto any agreement. Give me one reason, why one single country would be interested in giving us an agreement which is even as good as we have now.
We will be shafted at every given opportunity.
I have friends who are in senior management of 2 multinational companies, ( One electronics and one pharmaceutical ) they have both been told " privately " that if it's OUT, their jobs will move to EU countries as there will be such upheaval they'd be mad to stay and see how it pans out. Who can blame a business for that?
The EU , and the NHS ( I've always been able to get a GP appointment the same day) for that matter,are both flawed, but I'd rather have them, with the hope they can be fixed, than dump them.
Gove, IDS and Bojo have all said in the past , in various forms, that the NHS ought to be scrapped, or paid for by insurance. Does anyone really think they care about it now?
"£350m " could" be spent on the NHS" "could" !!!! £350m "could" be shared out between us all. It doesn't mean either "will" happen, but they "could"
Schools in Devon are being closed due to lack of pupils. Maybe if we didn't have such a LondonCentic economy , many of our problems would vanish.
Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin both want us to leave, why? they want a weaker Europe. I'd rather be in a stronger Europe.
I'm voting to remain.
My views exactly Hosta.
Hostafan,
100% spot on.
yes Hosta
I'm in
In the sticks near Peterborough
I don't see what is wrong with the example of Greece or Spain. Both of them are absolutely incontrovertible proof that membership does not guarantee economic success, not by a long way. Surely that is the whole purpose of the EU? So why join in the first place? Why can't we simply trade freely with other countries without all the bureaucracy that almost nobody actually understands, and without any artificial barriers?
I am a great believer in the KISS principle - keep it simple, stupid. Why do we need ten thousand officials earning more than David Cameron? What good have they done us since we joined?
Thumbs up Hosta I'm staying
The UK has been in the EU for over 40 years ...... it is a relatively small island and is now the 5th largest economy in the world .... how much better can it get???
Last edited: 13 June 2016 14:00:27
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.