For a good many years, British governments have allowed immigration to hold wages down and to supply certain skills without the expense of training. A low wage economy was expected to attract foreign investment while repeated cuts in services allowed tax cuts popular with voters. But the long term result has been that we now have a deskilled, low paid population with inadequate health care, housing and education. The economic crisis of 2008 was the final straw. Whether we Exit or Remain, the good old days aren't coming back: the key issue is to consider how we can best shape a new Britain, or possibly Europe. We may even have to ask what good we have to contribute to our neighbours rather than just how much we can screw out of them.
Actually I do have one, but it made no difference last November in Grand Canaria and it made no difference to a lady in my hotel in greece...
The NHS do not Repatriate you generally if you are injured// You are expected to have medical cover and when you book a holiday you have to quote a policy number to your holifay company..
Just one heart scare visit to the ER in USA cost my friend $7000, so you need a policy.. Yes I know that the USA is not in the EU yet... Mind you they still felt free to comment on our voting choices...
Public services are stretched to breaking point simply because successive governments and local authorities get elected by promising to keep taxes down and being disingenuous about what the services really cost to run. We expect more and more from the same (or less) money. It's as simple as that. The Great British Public votes with its pocket rather than its brain
Nothing to do with the early retirement and huge pensions afforded to public sector obviously.
" I have done my 30 years " is the quote I like best,
BLT - if you have the appropriate forms you should be treated in the EU.
As ever, repatriation is an administrative/government policy thing. Belgium runs its NHS differently and that includes repatriation within the EU but you are expected to take out medical insurance for holidays - common sense - because they found that providing repatriation by medical plane or helicopter for things like skiing accidents was getting too expensive.
Waiting lists are kept down by a) clearing beds of people whose post-op care can be done at home with dressing changes, injections etc from specialist nurses and b) more doctors per head of population than in the UK. 15 years ago my OH had to have a cataract operation (not age related but the result of an earlier accident to his eye) and the surgeon apologised because he's have to wait 10 days!
Posy - you're absolutely right. We have to ask what we can give as well as receive. There is much we can learn from how others in the EU do things and much the UK can offer but, hitherto, I get the distinct feeling that British functionaries at the EU haven't grasped this and don't do as much as they could to make EU systems better.
As for immigration - there are far greater numbers from outside the EU which the UK has the right to control without reference to EU freedom of movement. Leaving the EU won't make border controls any more efficient or stop the human traffickers or make local councils cleverer at providing school places or housing for those already here whether British or not.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
I do not really believe that the Brexit politicians, apart from Nigel, are very interested in immigration: to be sure, they make the right noises now, but their real concern is what they call red tape. These are the regulations that protect workers' rights, the environment, health and safety in work and the goods we buy and all those myriad things about which we appeal to the European courts. If they win, immigration will change very little, I believe, but the exploitation of ordinary people will increase significantly. We will be told that we have freedom and choice but it won't look like that to you and me. Like Americans, we will have the freedom to live in third world poverty if we can't find work, or to take only unpaid holiday time if we do. We already pay for university education, dentists and eye care. Health care will be next. The working time directive will go to allow us the freedom to work all the hours God sends for minimum pay and we'll be looking to trade with counties where their human rights laws belong to the dark ages. Gloomy? Me? Not a bit....
I think you're absolutely right Posy. Not gloomy - unless of course the leavers win in which case, good luck to the poor, the less able, the less the less mobile, the less articulate.......
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
A regular poster on the Wildfood forum has posted thus:
"If Brexit happens
(In no particular order) Our Parliament will be run by the same bunch of bozos as now. The Mike Ashley's of this world will carry on breaking the law with impunity. Mrs Green will continue to be paid millions and pay no tax. Others will continue to take money out of their business that isn't there and those who have mortgages and shop at Asda will continue to lose their jobs and be forced to accept reduced pensions. There will still be zero hour contracts. Knighthoods and Lordships will go to those who support the Prime Minister of the day. The UK will continue not checking the passports of everyone entering the country. Our three boats patrolling 8,000 miles of coast line will not stop immigrants crossing the channel. (Holland has 16 for 280 miles) The ownership of major industries and utilities will stay with their foreign owners. Farage will be out of a job. Health and Safety regulations will continue to be ignored. (tiger kills keeper) As will those for Health and Hygiene ones. (restaurant customer given peanut dish) Lessons will not be learnt for next time. HS2 will not be delivered on time nor under budget. When things go wrong the Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times etc., will blame the legacy of the EU. When things go right the Guardian, Independent, Times etc., will say how much better it would've been if we'd stayed.
The UK will muddle through as we've always done; whinging and whining because there's no bowl of cherries or glorious sunset but no-one to blame. For once the politicians can blame us. "
Posts
BLT, you obviously don't have an EHIC. Are you suggesting that the NHS pays for people be repatriated..? No.
For a good many years, British governments have allowed immigration to hold wages down and to supply certain skills without the expense of training. A low wage economy was expected to attract foreign investment while repeated cuts in services allowed tax cuts popular with voters. But the long term result has been that we now have a deskilled, low paid population with inadequate health care, housing and education. The economic crisis of 2008 was the final straw. Whether we Exit or Remain, the good old days aren't coming back: the key issue is to consider how we can best shape a new Britain, or possibly Europe. We may even have to ask what good we have to contribute to our neighbours rather than just how much we can screw out of them.
Actually I do have one, but it made no difference last November in Grand Canaria and it made no difference to a lady in my hotel in greece...
The NHS do not Repatriate you generally if you are injured// You are expected to have medical cover and when you book a holiday you have to quote a policy number to your holifay company..
Just one heart scare visit to the ER in USA cost my friend $7000, so you need a policy.. Yes I know that the USA is not in the EU yet... Mind you they still felt free to comment on our voting choices...
Last edited: 13 June 2016 01:18:08
Why shouldn't they? International trade will be affected by an exit.
Public services are stretched to breaking point simply because successive governments and local authorities get elected by promising to keep taxes down and being disingenuous about what the services really cost to run. We expect more and more from the same (or less) money. It's as simple as that. The Great British Public votes with its pocket rather than its brain
Nothing to do with the early retirement and huge pensions afforded to public sector obviously.
" I have done my 30 years " is the quote I like best,
The rest of you can work till you are 67.
See original post
BLT - if you have the appropriate forms you should be treated in the EU.
As ever, repatriation is an administrative/government policy thing. Belgium runs its NHS differently and that includes repatriation within the EU but you are expected to take out medical insurance for holidays - common sense - because they found that providing repatriation by medical plane or helicopter for things like skiing accidents was getting too expensive.
Waiting lists are kept down by a) clearing beds of people whose post-op care can be done at home with dressing changes, injections etc from specialist nurses and b) more doctors per head of population than in the UK. 15 years ago my OH had to have a cataract operation (not age related but the result of an earlier accident to his eye) and the surgeon apologised because he's have to wait 10 days!
Posy - you're absolutely right. We have to ask what we can give as well as receive. There is much we can learn from how others in the EU do things and much the UK can offer but, hitherto, I get the distinct feeling that British functionaries at the EU haven't grasped this and don't do as much as they could to make EU systems better.
As for immigration - there are far greater numbers from outside the EU which the UK has the right to control without reference to EU freedom of movement. Leaving the EU won't make border controls any more efficient or stop the human traffickers or make local councils cleverer at providing school places or housing for those already here whether British or not.
I do not really believe that the Brexit politicians, apart from Nigel, are very interested in immigration: to be sure, they make the right noises now, but their real concern is what they call red tape. These are the regulations that protect workers' rights, the environment, health and safety in work and the goods we buy and all those myriad things about which we appeal to the European courts. If they win, immigration will change very little, I believe, but the exploitation of ordinary people will increase significantly. We will be told that we have freedom and choice but it won't look like that to you and me. Like Americans, we will have the freedom to live in third world poverty if we can't find work, or to take only unpaid holiday time if we do. We already pay for university education, dentists and eye care. Health care will be next. The working time directive will go to allow us the freedom to work all the hours God sends for minimum pay and we'll be looking to trade with counties where their human rights laws belong to the dark ages. Gloomy? Me? Not a bit....
I think you're absolutely right Posy. Not gloomy - unless of course the leavers win in which case, good luck to the poor, the less able, the less the less mobile, the less articulate.......
A regular poster on the Wildfood forum has posted thus:
"If Brexit happens
(In no particular order)
Our Parliament will be run by the same bunch of bozos as now.
The Mike Ashley's of this world will carry on breaking the law with impunity.
Mrs Green will continue to be paid millions and pay no tax.
Others will continue to take money out of their business that isn't there and those who have mortgages and shop at Asda will continue to lose their jobs and be forced to accept reduced pensions.
There will still be zero hour contracts.
Knighthoods and Lordships will go to those who support the Prime Minister of the day.
The UK will continue not checking the passports of everyone entering the country.
Our three boats patrolling 8,000 miles of coast line will not stop immigrants crossing the channel. (Holland has 16 for 280 miles)
The ownership of major industries and utilities will stay with their foreign owners.
Farage will be out of a job.
Health and Safety regulations will continue to be ignored. (tiger kills keeper)
As will those for Health and Hygiene ones. (restaurant customer given peanut dish)
Lessons will not be learnt for next time.
HS2 will not be delivered on time nor under budget.
When things go wrong the Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times etc., will blame the legacy of the EU.
When things go right the Guardian, Independent, Times etc., will say how much better it would've been if we'd stayed.
The UK will muddle through as we've always done; whinging and whining because there's no bowl of cherries or glorious sunset but no-one to blame. For once the politicians can blame us. "
http://www.wildfood.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14018&p=404114#p404114
To be European about it, plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose ...........
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
In the sticks near Peterborough