I agree Dove and Steve. Public services are stretched from lack of funding but also because people don't take responsibility for their own lives and actions and think someone else will fix it.
Immigration from other parts of the world was already out of control before there was any free movement of EU people. Britain has a Commonwealth from which people have the right to come and then there are refugees from war zones for which we all have a moral duty to help.
Per head of population, immigration is higher in Switzerland (not EU but linked), Belgium, Sweden and the Netherlands. They also have a high percentage of non EU immigrants and all the problems of integration that that brings.
How you deal with it is down to the host countries and their own elected governments.
Last edited: 12 June 2016 14:55:33
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Irrespective of the causes of services being over stretched, we are where we are. Where we are IS services not being able to cope and net migration of 300,000 per year is part of the reason they can't cope. That's not racist or bigotted, it's a simple fact.
Yes, overall I believe immigration to this country is a good thing but, it does need to be controlled to a rate at which services can cope. If our Government wasn't throwing billions each year at corrupt countries in the name of 'aid' then maybe the current numbers would be more manageable. Also, if the feckless were forced to work, or otherwise given food tokens instead of cash, there would be less need for unskilled labour to come to the country.
Even setting aside the problems for the NHS e.g. 2 or 3 weeks to see a GP, 300,000 people (assuming 4 per household) require 75,000 additional houses per year. Where are they coming from.
Personally, I'm RemaIN, but I'll be very happy when it's over.
I too, have seen people fall out with friends and family over it and at the same time, people who genuinely want to know the true, unbiased facts have found it incredibly tough to find any.
This is very good and is relatively balanced: www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/for-every-fact-you-learn-about-the-eu-you-get-a-reward?utm_term=.fh32eoyo3#.bhDwez7z3
The amount of aid the British government gives is not decided at EU level.
Housing is a national issue that has been underfunded for decades - again, not decided at EU level.
It is naive to think leaving the EU will reduce illegal immigration as it's too easy to disappear once in.
Continental EU countries have ID cards that have to be produced when you move house, claim housing support, receive health or unemployment benefits, schools, GPs, open a bank account, electricity, water and gas supplies, even collecting a parcel from the PO. Even so, there are so many political and economic refugees in the world at the mo - often as a result of western action or inaction - that all of Europe is a a promised land by comparison.
Did you see the story about Brits being arrested for helping Afghans cross the Channel a week or so ago? Leaving the EU isn't going to fix that either. It needs a joined up solution.
Last edited: 12 June 2016 16:09:30
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Obelixx, don't get me started on the stupid 'oh, we can't have ID cards, imagine having to prove who you are as that would invade my civil liberties...' brigade!
Guys the NHS issue is not really related to the Referendum debate... I worked in the NHS professionally for 26 years and I can tell you it is the Indian, Pakistani and Iraqi and Iranian Consultants and surgeons who have all make a huge contribution to our heath and well being..
None of those nations are in the EU..
We recruit nursing staff from various nations... in the past from the Commonweath coutries for example.. My work colleagues were Trinidadians, Barbadians, Austrailians and Phillipinas and of course a good helping of Irish and Scots, Welsh and dare I say English...
When I posted this thread it was to highlight the factor that Honest Facts and Debates had not even started until the last 10 days or so and already 2.5 million Postal voters had already posted back their ballot papers....Which I felt was unfair..
It is not about the back biting and scaremongering, it is about making honest imformed choices in or der to move forward, whether you vote In or Out...
Lets be pleased we still have an NHS I know millions of Americans wish they had the NHS... Over there is 'Pay up or Die'...
What ever gave people the idea that we get free Healthcare in the EU, what Tosh, we have to have holiday insurance with a massive cover for medical emergency and repatriation...
Well????? Do you still fear we will implode if we leave, or will be embroiled in WW3... No...
Lets just beg to differ in a truly British and Civiliesed manner...
Posts
Steve
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I agree Dove and Steve. Public services are stretched from lack of funding but also because people don't take responsibility for their own lives and actions and think someone else will fix it.
Immigration from other parts of the world was already out of control before there was any free movement of EU people. Britain has a Commonwealth from which people have the right to come and then there are refugees from war zones for which we all have a moral duty to help.
Per head of population, immigration is higher in Switzerland (not EU but linked), Belgium, Sweden and the Netherlands. They also have a high percentage of non EU immigrants and all the problems of integration that that brings.
How you deal with it is down to the host countries and their own elected governments.
Last edited: 12 June 2016 14:55:33
Irrespective of the causes of services being over stretched, we are where we are. Where we are IS services not being able to cope and net migration of 300,000 per year is part of the reason they can't cope. That's not racist or bigotted, it's a simple fact.
Yes, overall I believe immigration to this country is a good thing but, it does need to be controlled to a rate at which services can cope. If our Government wasn't throwing billions each year at corrupt countries in the name of 'aid' then maybe the current numbers would be more manageable. Also, if the feckless were forced to work, or otherwise given food tokens instead of cash, there would be less need for unskilled labour to come to the country.
Even setting aside the problems for the NHS e.g. 2 or 3 weeks to see a GP, 300,000 people (assuming 4 per household) require 75,000 additional houses per year. Where are they coming from.
Personally, I'm RemaIN, but I'll be very happy when it's over.
I too, have seen people fall out with friends and family over it and at the same time, people who genuinely want to know the true, unbiased facts have found it incredibly tough to find any.
This is very good and is relatively balanced: www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/for-every-fact-you-learn-about-the-eu-you-get-a-reward?utm_term=.fh32eoyo3#.bhDwez7z3
The amount of aid the British government gives is not decided at EU level.
Housing is a national issue that has been underfunded for decades - again, not decided at EU level.
It is naive to think leaving the EU will reduce illegal immigration as it's too easy to disappear once in.
Continental EU countries have ID cards that have to be produced when you move house, claim housing support, receive health or unemployment benefits, schools, GPs, open a bank account, electricity, water and gas supplies, even collecting a parcel from the PO. Even so, there are so many political and economic refugees in the world at the mo - often as a result of western action or inaction - that all of Europe is a a promised land by comparison.
Did you see the story about Brits being arrested for helping Afghans cross the Channel a week or so ago? Leaving the EU isn't going to fix that either. It needs a joined up solution.
Last edited: 12 June 2016 16:09:30
Obelixx, don't get me started on the stupid 'oh, we can't have ID cards, imagine having to prove who you are as that would invade my civil liberties...' brigade!
I know Steve. It's so obvious.
Last edited: 12 June 2016 19:31:25
Guys the NHS issue is not really related to the Referendum debate... I worked in the NHS professionally for 26 years and I can tell you it is the Indian, Pakistani and Iraqi and Iranian Consultants and surgeons who have all make a huge contribution to our heath and well being..
None of those nations are in the EU..
We recruit nursing staff from various nations... in the past from the Commonweath coutries for example.. My work colleagues were Trinidadians, Barbadians, Austrailians and Phillipinas and of course a good helping of Irish and Scots, Welsh and dare I say English...
When I posted this thread it was to highlight the factor that Honest Facts and Debates had not even started until the last 10 days or so and already 2.5 million Postal voters had already posted back their ballot papers....Which I felt was unfair..
It is not about the back biting and scaremongering, it is about making honest imformed choices in or der to move forward, whether you vote In or Out...
Lets be pleased we still have an NHS I know millions of Americans wish they had the NHS... Over there is 'Pay up or Die'...
What ever gave people the idea that we get free Healthcare in the EU, what Tosh, we have to have holiday insurance with a massive cover for medical emergency and repatriation...
Well????? Do you still fear we will implode if we leave, or will be embroiled in WW3... No...
Lets just beg to differ in a truly British and Civiliesed manner...