Trespass is only applicable if damage is caused. Frankly, I would kick out at a dog if I was going to be bitten. Chicken and egg situation.
Really there is no point in bringing cows into the conversation.
A running or 'cycling figure is very tempting to dogs, they are pack animals who naturally run down prey. Perhaps if the jogger had stood still she wouldn't have been bitten. Sadly the way to behave around animals is no longer taught. Witness the way drivers fail to drive correctly past horses on the road.
Sorry If Ive offended anyone, I just believe that dogs should be under control at all times wherever they are and if you cant do this then you shouldnt keep them.
As I have explained I have been a dog owner for many years and I chose to keep my dogs on leads, I understand that some dogs are allowed off leads on their own land but if thats the case then they should be supervised and trained not to bite. I would assume that this is the case with working dogs and/or domestic pets.
Now to the points that really offended me.
I've always respected other peoples property and wouldnt trespass on other peoples land. Oh and by the way I was brought up by responsible parents in a happy home and my parents didnt need to resort to hitting me with anything to ensure that I behaved myself.
I have never been cruel to any animal. My dogs had a large secure gardenf to roam in and were taken on long walks on leads. They had all the love and exercise they needed.
Rest assured I will not participate in any other controversial discussion on the forum as it is obvious that some people do not respect other peoples points of view unless it agrees with theirs and should a person disagree with them they then feel that its perfectly OK to resort to personal abuse.
I don't think you have offended anybody. We are all entitled to have differing views on any subject under the sun. We should also not take too much notice of people who offend us. Life is too short, and this thread will in due course reach the bottom of the page and be lost to constant view.
I love dogs - there has always been a dog or dogs in my life. They are in the main happy animals which greet their owners with metaphorical smiles every morning. But sometimes things go wrong.
Cangrandmafixitt came on the forum because she was distressed on behalf of her friend and wanted advice. It doesn't help to be told dogs should be on the lead at all times. You can't wind the clock back, unfortunately.
English law must be different from Scottish law then.Trespass without any damage is purely a legal matter so a lawyer is involved. If there's damage it's a criminal matter and that's when the police are involved.
I'm not sure anyone here can give a definitive answer to this as we only have one set of facts to go on so we can only offer advice based on that. At present, it's one person's word against another's.
I think your friend has to seek legal help as a first option grandma.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Cangranma, checking www.gov.co.uk there is info about new legislation for dangerous dogs in public places and a section for owners of common land, rights of way etc. Nothing, as far as I can see, for private land.
I have been checking trespass up on the web I found that on every issue of land this is what it says clearly that anyone entering private land or property without owners invite it is an illegal act of trespass ,it points out is illegal entry .
However , should damage be caused by any person or persons it is thus an illegal entery with intent to cause damage by act ?........ ( sorry can't remember exactly)though goes on to say It is a criminal act.
Thanks BizzieB will continue to check this.
Yviestevie please don't be offended. Everyone is entitled to there view and I appreciate everyone has different . if I offended you then I am sorry , I don't know if you will see this , I hope you do .and if it's possible to pm you then I shall. gran
Mike I am beginning to realise that what I myself thought as a deterrent could in fact be just the opposite.
We have now three rescue dogs having recently had our german shepherd put to sleep through I'll health. We miss her so much and have had to come to terms with not having our first dog around for much longer.
We never have put a. " beware of the dog s " sign up.but have thought since my friends episode with the law that we would be doing the right thing plus it would be a deterant to the wrong sort especially living here with no neighbours next door as such..
It is also interesting the kicking out part, could you tell me ,?
It's just curiosity this one : about 25 years ago I was attacked at work by a dog. I DID kick out at it .my union was involved as I had to report the required visit to the hospital
When I was briefed on what to write I was advised by the union that I should keep quiet about kicking out at the dog.as the owner of the dog could have a cruelty claim against me.
But back to the case in question my friend has been asked why from the police why she has not had the five dogs destroyed..she explains she was taking advice from her solicitor. Who said not do anything apart from what she tells them untill further evidence comes forward from the police.but 3 of the dogs had nothing to do with the incident.
It is not for the police to ask why the dogs have not been put down. That is a question for the court, if it gets that far.
Your friend is correct to say she is taking advice from a solicitor and if she wants to take it further the woman who was bitten would be well advised to use a solicitor too. It is very serious to expect someone to put down a dog. Was the bite serious? Did it involve A&E and stitches? Has she been off work with it? Has she explained why she was on private property in the first place?
Posts
Really there is no point in bringing cows into the conversation.
A running or 'cycling figure is very tempting to dogs, they are pack animals who naturally run down prey. Perhaps if the jogger had stood still she wouldn't have been bitten. Sadly the way to behave around animals is no longer taught. Witness the way drivers fail to drive correctly past horses on the road.
Sorry If Ive offended anyone, I just believe that dogs should be under control at all times wherever they are and if you cant do this then you shouldnt keep them.
As I have explained I have been a dog owner for many years and I chose to keep my dogs on leads, I understand that some dogs are allowed off leads on their own land but if thats the case then they should be supervised and trained not to bite. I would assume that this is the case with working dogs and/or domestic pets.
Now to the points that really offended me.
I've always respected other peoples property and wouldnt trespass on other peoples land. Oh and by the way I was brought up by responsible parents in a happy home and my parents didnt need to resort to hitting me with anything to ensure that I behaved myself.
I have never been cruel to any animal. My dogs had a large secure gardenf to roam in and were taken on long walks on leads. They had all the love and exercise they needed.
Rest assured I will not participate in any other controversial discussion on the forum as it is obvious that some people do not respect other peoples points of view unless it agrees with theirs and should a person disagree with them they then feel that its perfectly OK to resort to personal abuse.
I love dogs - there has always been a dog or dogs in my life. They are in the main happy animals which greet their owners with metaphorical smiles every morning. But sometimes things go wrong.
Cangrandmafixitt came on the forum because she was distressed on behalf of her friend and wanted advice. It doesn't help to be told dogs should be on the lead at all times. You can't wind the clock back, unfortunately.
English law must be different from Scottish law then.Trespass without any damage is purely a legal matter so a lawyer is involved. If there's damage it's a criminal matter and that's when the police are involved.
I'm not sure anyone here can give a definitive answer to this as we only have one set of facts to go on so we can only offer advice based on that. At present, it's one person's word against another's.
I think your friend has to seek legal help as a first option grandma.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Agree with Fairygirl.
Cangranma, checking www.gov.co.uk there is info about new legislation for dangerous dogs in public places and a section for owners of common land, rights of way etc. Nothing, as far as I can see, for private land.
Legal advice is essential in this case.
I have been checking trespass up on the web I found that on every issue of land this is what it says clearly that anyone entering private land or property without owners invite it is an illegal act of trespass ,it points out is illegal entry .
However , should damage be caused by any person or persons it is thus an illegal entery with intent to cause damage by act ?........ ( sorry can't remember exactly)though goes on to say It is a criminal act.
Thanks BizzieB will continue to check this.
Yviestevie please don't be offended. Everyone is entitled to there view and I appreciate everyone has different . if I offended you then I am sorry , I don't know if you will see this , I hope you do .and if it's possible to pm you then I shall. gran
THANKS BizzieB for that link,
This new law/ ruling does not come in until tomorrow which is 20th of October .this should make a differance
Mike I am beginning to realise that what I myself thought as a deterrent could in fact be just the opposite.
We have now three rescue dogs having recently had our german shepherd put to sleep through I'll health. We miss her so much and have had to come to terms with not having our first dog around for much longer.
We never have put a. " beware of the dog s " sign up.but have thought since my friends episode with the law that we would be doing the right thing plus it would be a deterant to the wrong sort especially living here with no neighbours next door as such..
It is also interesting the kicking out part, could you tell me ,?
It's just curiosity this one : about 25 years ago I was attacked at work by a dog. I DID kick out at it .my union was involved as I had to report the required visit to the hospital
When I was briefed on what to write I was advised by the union that I should keep quiet about kicking out at the dog.as the owner of the dog could have a cruelty claim against me.
But back to the case in question my friend has been asked why from the police why she has not had the five dogs destroyed..she explains she was taking advice from her solicitor. Who said not do anything apart from what she tells them untill further evidence comes forward from the police.but 3 of the dogs had nothing to do with the incident.
The law I think is too confusing .
You you have any views to add to this Mike?
Should only be the one you ( it's not meant as a song)
Your friend is correct to say she is taking advice from a solicitor and if she wants to take it further the woman who was bitten would be well advised to use a solicitor too. It is very serious to expect someone to put down a dog. Was the bite serious? Did it involve A&E and stitches? Has she been off work with it? Has she explained why she was on private property in the first place?