I have owned a number of dogs in the past. I always kept them on a lead when out walking. They did run free in my garden but it was well fenced and there was no possibility of access by anyone unless I allowed them in.
I love dogs, but I think it is unacceptable for them to bite anyone unless they are seriously provoked. I certainly wouldn't let them run free on open land whether I owned it or not. No dog can be bomb proof, they can be ill and in pain or perhaps the weather can become too much for them. In this instance it was an adult that got bit but it could just as easily have been a child, after all, haven't we all nipped over the odd fence as a child.
One of my dogs was actually attacked whilst on my doorstep by a labrador that ran down my drive. The owner insisted that he always walked the dog off the lead and had never had any trouble before.
Yviestevie, anyone that kept a working dog on a lead on their land would look pretty stupid.
Just giving an example of how easy it is to generalise and how easy it is to talk nonsense.
In my experience most people who have land let their dogs run free. And why wouldn't they? When my daughter went out riding far from home she often took the dog, and it certainly wasn't on a lead.
Yviestevie,as I understand it you let your dogs run free in your garden which it was well fenced and no access by anyone unless you allowed them in.
1)) my friend lets her dogs into her garden which is adjacent to her property and as I said it is fenced off. By rights nobody can get in to her land unless they walked straight passed the front door and undid a latch on the gate .
So this is no different to what you did except it was maybe on a bigger scale ,I'm guessing to your garden,- and as it is a small holding had chickens in seperate hen pens these fenced off.
2)) so how did the person get in ,? they had no right to enter there property unless they were going to see them. So to go as they must have done they were trespassing.Around the field are notices warning the land is private.
No one can understand why this person was there either ( except to what she said and this was, she was going for a jog)
3)) you did not let your dog's run free? So did you keep them on a lead all the time? That is cruel ,a dog needs to run ,it is natural and essentially healthy.
What is the point of having your own fenced field and walking your dog's on a lead?
You can hardly call land that is fenced off with chain link and hedging open land so why not let them run for execise.open land is open land ,this was not open land,it was not a free for all.
4)) I now refer to you assuming we have all nipped over the odd fence as children,well you maybe , but I was brought up to respect other people's property .I knew right from wrong. I was not a goody goody but I did know the wrath of my father's belt.
But with your dog that was attacked on your doorstep , this is irrelevant to my friends situation, I ask you this ,
Did you have gates at the end of your drive and were they shut?because the gates at my friends were until the jogger came through.your property doesn't sound the same at all all so why should a jogger choose to run well off the beaten track .she was bitten yes but what was she really doing?
By the sound of things others regularly come passed your house , they don't near by my friends , anyone who isn't invited or going for a purpose is regarded as suspicious
But really I don't think the dogs trust would approve of dogs not getting exercise.they need to run naturally and play
At the risk of sounding judgemental you are wrong to offer a defence for a dog that has bitten anyone except under severe provocation or threat to themselves or the owner. It is not right to trespass on private land but a polite word explaining the land is private would usually be enough. You have not said the jogger was threatening at all and it must be assumed that the dog just decided he was going to bite her. This would probably be the same on public land as the dog wasn't provoked or threatened. The next time it could be a child or someone with a heart condition etc.
The bottom line is your friend could not control her dogs when they attacked the jogger or was it a case of 'it's my land, you shouldn't be here, if you get bitten it's your fault'.
I've read this thread with interest. I'm not a dog lover but I think when someone has fenced off their land and put notices up stating that it's private property how can someone claim they didn't know it's private - especially if they'd have to either go through the owner's gate to access it, or climb the fence?
grandma has stated that the land is next to a moor - plenty of other land for the jogger to run on then. What's the owner supposed to do - spend all day patrolling her boundary if her dogs are out there and telling anyone passing that it's private? Ludicrous.
If it was me - I'd turn the tables and have the jogger charged with trespass.
Just my tuppenceworth
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
The dogs were kicked out at I have suggested that they focus on this too.
As well as what Fairygirl has pointed towards. Why was she on someone else's land I say she has treated this as a playground .I am just pleased she didn't venture in the next field where there Is cattle , where she could have been trampled to death .Then would it be my friends fault?
That's just what I was thinking, Cangran, as I read through this: what if she had been attacked by a horse or cattle as you say. I very much doubt someone would come out and shoot those animals for being out of control on private property.
I'm not up to speed on the law of this but if I was on someone's property without permission and without any business being there I would assume it was my own fault.
I was bitten by a large dog as a child and I don't blame the dog or the owner. One of my parents took me uninvited and unannounced into the back garden of someone they barely knew through a gate with a beware of the dog sign. I think people have to take responsibility for themselves.
Posts
I have owned a number of dogs in the past. I always kept them on a lead when out walking. They did run free in my garden but it was well fenced and there was no possibility of access by anyone unless I allowed them in.
I love dogs, but I think it is unacceptable for them to bite anyone unless they are seriously provoked. I certainly wouldn't let them run free on open land whether I owned it or not. No dog can be bomb proof, they can be ill and in pain or perhaps the weather can become too much for them. In this instance it was an adult that got bit but it could just as easily have been a child, after all, haven't we all nipped over the odd fence as a child.
One of my dogs was actually attacked whilst on my doorstep by a labrador that ran down my drive. The owner insisted that he always walked the dog off the lead and had never had any trouble before.
Just giving an example of how easy it is to generalise and how easy it is to talk nonsense.
In my experience most people who have land let their dogs run free. And why wouldn't they? When my daughter went out riding far from home she often took the dog, and it certainly wasn't on a lead.
Yviestevie,as I understand it you let your dogs run free in your garden which it was well fenced and no access by anyone unless you allowed them in.
1)) my friend lets her dogs into her garden which is adjacent to her property and as I said it is fenced off. By rights nobody can get in to her land unless they walked straight passed the front door and undid a latch on the gate .
So this is no different to what you did except it was maybe on a bigger scale ,I'm guessing to your garden,- and as it is a small holding had chickens in seperate hen pens these fenced off.
2)) so how did the person get in ,? they had no right to enter there property unless they were going to see them. So to go as they must have done they were trespassing.Around the field are notices warning the land is private.
No one can understand why this person was there either ( except to what she said and this was, she was going for a jog)
3)) you did not let your dog's run free? So did you keep them on a lead all the time? That is cruel ,a dog needs to run ,it is natural and essentially healthy.
What is the point of having your own fenced field and walking your dog's on a lead?
You can hardly call land that is fenced off with chain link and hedging open land so why not let them run for execise.open land is open land ,this was not open land,it was not a free for all.
4)) I now refer to you assuming we have all nipped over the odd fence as children,well you maybe , but I was brought up to respect other people's property .I knew right from wrong. I was not a goody goody but I did know the wrath of my father's belt.
But with your dog that was attacked on your doorstep , this is irrelevant to my friends situation, I ask you this ,
Did you have gates at the end of your drive and were they shut?because the gates at my friends were until the jogger came through.your property doesn't sound the same at all all so why should a jogger choose to run well off the beaten track .she was bitten yes but what was she really doing?
By the sound of things others regularly come passed your house , they don't near by my friends , anyone who isn't invited or going for a purpose is regarded as suspicious
But really I don't think the dogs trust would approve of dogs not getting exercise.they need to run naturally and play
Mike have pm d you.
At the risk of sounding judgemental you are wrong to offer a defence for a dog that has bitten anyone except under severe provocation or threat to themselves or the owner. It is not right to trespass on private land but a polite word explaining the land is private would usually be enough. You have not said the jogger was threatening at all and it must be assumed that the dog just decided he was going to bite her. This would probably be the same on public land as the dog wasn't provoked or threatened. The next time it could be a child or someone with a heart condition etc.
The bottom line is your friend could not control her dogs when they attacked the jogger or was it a case of 'it's my land, you shouldn't be here, if you get bitten it's your fault'.
Thanks Mike Allen ,I appreciate you taking time to explains from your experience of what happens within the law side of these situations..
I copied your piece of info and have emailed my friend with it.
The one thing which puzzles me is why the jogger should be on private land.and why she kicked out at the dog.I do see it as wrong.
I've read this thread with interest. I'm not a dog lover but I think when someone has fenced off their land and put notices up stating that it's private property how can someone claim they didn't know it's private - especially if they'd have to either go through the owner's gate to access it, or climb the fence?
grandma has stated that the land is next to a moor - plenty of other land for the jogger to run on then. What's the owner supposed to do - spend all day patrolling her boundary if her dogs are out there and telling anyone passing that it's private? Ludicrous.
If it was me - I'd turn the tables and have the jogger charged with trespass.
Just my tuppenceworth
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
The dogs were kicked out at I have suggested that they focus on this too.
As well as what Fairygirl has pointed towards. Why was she on someone else's land I say she has treated this as a playground .I am just pleased she didn't venture in the next field where there Is cattle , where she could have been trampled to death .Then would it be my friends fault?
That's just what I was thinking, Cangran, as I read through this: what if she had been attacked by a horse or cattle as you say. I very much doubt someone would come out and shoot those animals for being out of control on private property.
I'm not up to speed on the law of this but if I was on someone's property without permission and without any business being there I would assume it was my own fault.
I was bitten by a large dog as a child and I don't blame the dog or the owner. One of my parents took me uninvited and unannounced into the back garden of someone they barely knew through a gate with a beware of the dog sign. I think people have to take responsibility for themselves.