A heads-up to anyone looking for John Paul II rose (a fragrant white), there are several available on ebay now from this seller https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204208409688
99.9% sure the seller is Welling Nursery and they are legit. Just bought one anyway so will post results.
OK A discussion has been raging over dinner and I can only think of one person with a talent for mixing plants with roses with panache.
So @Marlorena, here is your mission, should you wish to accept it, for the back wall of the border (and anyone else who wants to add their thoughts, experience, or tuppence-worth). Taking what @Nollie said re the path coming in 50cm from the wall, that means that we would be able to plant climbers, and the roses have won - non-competition really!
The contenders are Climbing Iceberg and/or Zephirine Drouhin (as both are thornless-ish and we like them). Now the wall would be large enough to take about 5 of them (so a mixture of the two is also a possibility). But what clematis would go through both successfully in terms of colour and season. One option we are considering is Piilu (https://thorncroftclematis.co.uk/clematis-piilu-8473-p.asp) because of its long flowering season and two different types of flowers over the season.
But I am red-green colour blind to an extent and do not trust my eyes to help me make the right choice.
@PeterAberdeen .. Peter, nice discussion to have over dinner... flattered that you thought of me, so, as you said it, be prepared for bombardment.... these are only meant for inspiration, my taste may not be yours or anyone else's.. but you know it's middle of winter, I'm bored out of my head so let's have some pretty pics.. A few at a time - mustn't indulge too much..
'Zephirine Drouhin'.. has a big flush for about 5 weeks, then continues till late.. ..Now I prefer it's sister 'Kathleen Harrop'.. equally thornless but I think a nicer colour.. might go well together..
'Cornelia' is a favourite.. also thornless, totally, easy to manage, blooms continuously with musky scent.. 4' x 8-10 feet.. very suitable for wall or low fence..
..lots here now grow 'Ghislaine de Feligonde'.. tiny prickles in a line under the flower buds, otherwise no thorns.. Mr Vine highlighted upthread.. flowers all summer.. sited here next to narrow path.. 'Piilu' clematis, first flowers are double.. ..then turning single.. I don't have better photos of this.. a good choice, I found it a bit slow to start..
..my best clematis is 'Niobe' and I can't be without it.. lovely velvety red.. flowers for a long time.. 'The Vagabond' starts in May and last flowers in November.. a very good repeating clematis after the first flush.. nice dark colour.. 'Star Of India' is another favourite.. flowers about 8 weeks, bit later than others.. Lythrum 'Dropmore Purple'.. fantastic perennial, flowers long period, loves moisture but even does well in my dryish conditions.. photo taken in 100F heat this July.. Veronicastrum's are funny quirky plants.. good blue spikes which repeat well further down.. even the brown seed heads can be attractive and left on the plant.. You like Iris... I love this Dalmatian type.. Iris pallida 'Argentea'.. grown for foliage mostly, the leaves last fresh like this all summer into late autumn, unlike others..
Hypericum 'Magical Beauty' is an evergreen although the foliage is dull, I think the flowers and berries lighten up the scene in summer. I have some Daylilies.. this is 'Stafford' which gives me that desired dark red.. ..this grass Imperator 'Red Baron' [or cylindrica 'Rubra'] starts green, quickly turning reddish as summer goes on, then dark burgundy. I love it actually.. have several clumps.. loves moisture.. ..ground cover Geraniums in variety.. and Delphiniums always go well in rose gardens don't they.. I like a few pots but not too many now.. ..this is the magnificent meadow cranesbill Geranium pratense.. needs more moisture than I could give it.. large leaves, flowers a long time and loved by bees.. fantastic plant for moist conditions.. about 4 feet.. ..for frontal positions, I prefer little sub shrubs with a rounded outline.. just gives me a calming effect.. ..and lastly for that canny Scot... simple Chives, cheap cheerful and so easy.. goes well with roses, I have it with a pink Austin.. leaves appear very early and flowers go on a long time after a cut back.. what could be simpler?..
.. I expect to see fabulous photos of your Mum's garden this summer Peter..
I'd just cut back anything that was sticking out too much from the obelisk, back to a bud facing the direction that I wanted it to carry on growing.
Obviously you're best placed to judge. It just looked like in the photo that one of the bits you were asking about was sticking out and if you leave it to its own devices it'll carry on growing out away from the obelisk.
I don’t have much to add to @Marlorena’s excellent suggestions @PeterAberdeen except to say if you have the space, why not have both or several different roses? Argument solved! I think any of M’s purple clematis suggestions would look good with any pink or white rose or combination thereof.
The only thing I would say about Climbing Iceberg is that it never repeat flowered for me and several others on the forum have reported likewise. I gave it a few years then gave up on it. People who have had it in their gardens a long time say it’s an abundant and regular repeater, which leads me to suspect that over-propagation or some other factor has weakened more recent strains of this rose, but I don’t really know..
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
I think I agree @Nollie the whites have less flower power and scent in modern specimens. I inherited a white climber that was 10yo in 1982. It started to flower in May and finished in January. The scent was heavy all summer. My present white climber ( unknown species) I thought had no scent for the first two years, then this year I detected a light rose fragrance. Maybe it just needed time to establish and produce enough flowers for it to be detected, but it is not as prolific in flower or for as long.
P.S. @PeterAberdeen if you want a large bush rose that flowers long, with great fragrance, and is healthy, I would recommend Blue For You. It has a range of blue to purple flowers all summer, and can get quite tall 5ft if left, or can be cut back after it's first flush to reflower at the same height again after about six weeks.
This is all really interesting and very informative.
I think on reflection, listening to @Nollie & @purplerallim, I will ditch the Iceberg. There is no point getting it, if I doesn't do as it states on the tin, and repeat flower. Therefore I think I will go for the Zephirine Drouhin, as Mum really liked its colour of pink. It does make me wonder on a good white rose - any thoughts on using Madam Alfred Carriere instead of the Iceberg?
With regard to the companion planting I really do like your recommendations, @Marlorena of the Clematis Niobe - especially when I see it in your picture next to that pink rose. Your Lythrum also is a great contender as it can cope with moisture and drier conditions. Here the weather can be 'feast or famine'. I do have a Hypericum, that needs moved from another border (as I need to deal with some chronic couch grass) and it is going to be replaced with an Acer Dissectum Irish Lace.
Delphiniums seem to be a must to counter-point the Foxgloves (Foxies on the left nearer the Cherry Tree and Delphies to the right nearer the roses. A good strong blue for the Delphies, I think, Black Knight or Faust? I also have some Crocosmia Lucifer (which I tend to plant in a bottomless bucket, to keep it contained and some day lilies but mine are yellow (and desperately needing split up).
As to plants I have that would just need to transplant in: I have Astilbe (red and white), Cardoon, Hollyhocks, Siberica Iris (Temper Tantrum), Geranium Patricia and Susanne, Centaurea Montana and finally Goliath Poppy - both King Kong and Beauty of Livermere. Then with annuals I am thinking on Cosmos Chocolate and Amaranthus.
You guys have been terrific here. The choice for roses has been a lively discussion in our house, but to get recommendations from people who have grown the roses and know their quirks, &c really helps to choose "Right plant, right place" and to deliver on the look that we are looking for. We will definitely be taking pictures as the border develops over the summer.
There is still time to get the roses and to get the climbing wires up. But first I have to rip up the lilac suckers!
I'd just cut back anything that was sticking out too much from the obelisk, back to a bud facing the direction that I wanted it to carry on growing.
Obviously you're best placed to judge. It just looked like in the photo that one of the bits you were asking about was sticking out and if you leave it to its own devices it'll carry on growing out away from the obelisk.
Ah, OK, yes. I get you. I’m not very experienced at this so that’s why I’m asking.
What I’m thinking is that I don’t mind it growing out a bit at first so that I have some Cane to work with when tying it in. I want to leave the interiors of the obelisk as clear as I can and curve the canes around outside- almost like that “Niff Barnes” type of pruning to get flowers all the way up.
Posts
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204208409688
99.9% sure the seller is Welling Nursery and they are legit. Just bought one anyway so will post results.
.. Peter, nice discussion to have over dinner... flattered that you thought of me, so, as you said it, be prepared for bombardment.... these are only meant for inspiration, my taste may not be yours or anyone else's.. but you know it's middle of winter, I'm bored out of my head so let's have some pretty pics..
A few at a time - mustn't indulge too much..
'Zephirine Drouhin'.. has a big flush for about 5 weeks, then continues till late..
..Now I prefer it's sister 'Kathleen Harrop'.. equally thornless but I think a nicer colour.. might go well together..
'Cornelia' is a favourite.. also thornless, totally, easy to manage, blooms continuously with musky scent.. 4' x 8-10 feet.. very suitable for wall or low fence..
..lots here now grow 'Ghislaine de Feligonde'.. tiny prickles in a line under the flower buds, otherwise no thorns.. Mr Vine highlighted upthread.. flowers all summer.. sited here next to narrow path..
'Piilu' clematis, first flowers are double..
..then turning single.. I don't have better photos of this.. a good choice, I found it a bit slow to start..
'The Vagabond' starts in May and last flowers in November.. a very good repeating clematis after the first flush.. nice dark colour..
'Star Of India' is another favourite.. flowers about 8 weeks, bit later than others..
Lythrum 'Dropmore Purple'.. fantastic perennial, flowers long period, loves moisture but even does well in my dryish conditions.. photo taken in 100F heat this July..
Veronicastrum's are funny quirky plants.. good blue spikes which repeat well further down.. even the brown seed heads can be attractive and left on the plant..
You like Iris... I love this Dalmatian type.. Iris pallida 'Argentea'.. grown for foliage mostly, the leaves last fresh like this all summer into late autumn, unlike others..
I have some Daylilies.. this is 'Stafford' which gives me that desired dark red..
..this grass Imperator 'Red Baron' [or cylindrica 'Rubra'] starts green, quickly turning reddish as summer goes on, then dark burgundy. I love it actually.. have several clumps.. loves moisture..
..ground cover Geraniums in variety.. and Delphiniums always go well in rose gardens don't they.. I like a few pots but not too many now..
..this is the magnificent meadow cranesbill Geranium pratense.. needs more moisture than I could give it.. large leaves, flowers a long time and loved by bees.. fantastic plant for moist conditions.. about 4 feet..
..for frontal positions, I prefer little sub shrubs with a rounded outline.. just gives me a calming effect..
..and lastly for that canny Scot... simple Chives, cheap cheerful and so easy.. goes well with roses, I have it with a pink Austin.. leaves appear very early and flowers go on a long time after a cut back.. what could be simpler?..
.. I expect to see fabulous photos of your Mum's garden this summer Peter..
I'd just cut back anything that was sticking out too much from the obelisk, back to a bud facing the direction that I wanted it to carry on growing.
Obviously you're best placed to judge. It just looked like in the photo that one of the bits you were asking about was sticking out and if you leave it to its own devices it'll carry on growing out away from the obelisk.
The only thing I would say about Climbing Iceberg is that it never repeat flowered for me and several others on the forum have reported likewise. I gave it a few years then gave up on it. People who have had it in their gardens a long time say it’s an abundant and regular repeater, which leads me to suspect that over-propagation or some other factor has weakened more recent strains of this rose, but I don’t really know..
My present white climber ( unknown species) I thought had no scent for the first two years, then this year I detected a light rose fragrance. Maybe it just needed time to establish and produce enough flowers for it to be detected, but it is not as prolific in flower or for as long.
P.S. @PeterAberdeen if you want a large bush rose that flowers long, with great fragrance, and is healthy, I would recommend Blue For You. It has a range of blue to purple flowers all summer, and can get quite tall 5ft if left, or can be cut back after it's first flush to reflower at the same height again after about six weeks.
With regard to the companion planting I really do like your recommendations, @Marlorena of the Clematis Niobe - especially when I see it in your picture next to that pink rose. Your Lythrum also is a great contender as it can cope with moisture and drier conditions. Here the weather can be 'feast or famine'. I do have a Hypericum, that needs moved from another border (as I need to deal with some chronic couch grass) and it is going to be replaced with an Acer Dissectum Irish Lace.
I have no idea if I’m doing it correctly or not!