I know, @owd potter, it’s confusing since bush and shrub mean the same thing in the English language! I used to think they were interchangeable for roses as well, but no..
A ‘bush rose’ is a hybrid tea or floribunda rose, most patio roses too since they are invariably an HT or flori. These are presumably lumped together because they benefit from hard pruning annually. They flower exclusively on new growth each year so a good hard prune encourages the new and promotes better flowering.
A ‘shrub rose’ is an old rose (that isn’t a climber) so gallicas, albas, teas, musks, chinas, damasks etc., plus it also applies to modern roses like DA’s ‘English’ shrub roses and many others that have a good dose of old rose genes in the mix. They are a varied bunch with, well, a shrubbier growth pattern and can be rounded, arching, compact, huge, once-flowering or repeat. You are basically pruning those into a stronger, more pleasingly-shaped shrub but not as hard as bush roses.
Note: many old roses only flower on 1-3yr old wood (hold those secateurs!) so are not pruned or treated the same as those that flower on new growth.
Old roses, climbers, ramblers… for another day!
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Thanks Nollie for explaining it. I also thought bush and shrub meant same thing but now I learned the difference.
One reason I am thinking why this hard pruning might be suggested is, that would make it branch lower down and more dense looking but actually I dont really want my roses to branch out so low down. I like to be able to clear up leaves and pull out or hoe weeds under roses with less scratches.
Thanks Nollie for explaining it. I also thought bush and shrub meant same thing but now I learned the difference.
One reason I am thinking why this hard pruning might be suggested is, that would make it branch lower down and more dense looking but actually I dont really want my roses to branch out so low down. I like to be able to clear up leaves and pull out or hoe weeds under roses with less scratches.
I agree. I'm not forty yet but frankly my knees won't allow me to appreciate flowers that far down. So my dog is only one who gets to enjoy i.e. eat them.:)
I am finding this discussion very useful. My current plan is to attack them all with secateurs in Feb apart from 1st or 2nd year climbers/ramblers. And I will prune the tops at least off the new bareroots unless I do succumb to the allure of Charles de Mills, which I'll leave alone- is this correct?
My specific questions are: can a hybrid perpetual like Ferdinand Pichard be hard pruned (it doesn't count as an old rose, does it?)?And Bourbon climbers like BdN (1867) can be whacked back in year three, can't they?
..thanks again for earlier comments... hope anyone under the weather is feeling better..
..this is a recently planted bare root Hybrid Perpetual pruned back to 3-4 inches.. it can be left till March feeding time, it's not a problem, or just left as it was, but I like to prune things. In the days of growing more tender roses than we do today, I would have left more cane on. In the last 12 years I have lost just 2 roses to winter cold. 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' and a 'Reine des Violettes' both bare root with thin canes that did not survive a bad winter, I think 2010-2011.. no guesses which rose nursery supplied them..
..the above rose is the famous red, sometimes purple, from Woolverstone Church, Essex... with a scent unmatched not only because of its intensity but complex notes that nobody can quite put their finger on.
Thanks @Nollie. Excellent. Very informative. Launching and developing such discussion points is what this forum is really great for. That DA do not sell any Bush roses might explain why maybe DA do not advise hard pruning following planting, although they do list a few Floribunda's. I've also looked through PB catalogue and, yes, they do indeed list sections of Modern Bush roses of HT'S & Floribundas, which aligns with what Nollie has said above. Interestingly, PB list Rhapsody in Blue as a Floribunda so, as that is 1 of my on order bare roots, I'll need to consider whether to hard prune. Interestingly, Ebb Tide too, so makes me wonder whether the weak specimens as discussed recently may have fared better had they been hard pruned following planting? Just a thought.
@owd potter the same thought had occurred to me about Ebb Tide! I am minded instead of binning mine to prune what remains (not much... two very sickly canes) almost to the graft and see if that helps.
Gorgeous pictures, Marlorena. Thanks as always for the advice!
Just to say, the following Continental nurseries will ship to UK. Shipping will be expensive due to import permits.. Thanks to Debbie from the Historic Roses Group..
Having finally decided to purchase Lady Emma Hamilton rose I found out that it is now “retired” from David Austin’s catalogue. Does anyone know where I could still buy this lovely fragrant rose?
@newbie77 ... under normal circumstances anytime from November. I like to get them all done by mid Dec, as I don't garden anymore until late Feb. I'm a bit behind this autumn but I've managed to get most done and should be finished on time. I have a couple with good hips so I have to leave those until Feb.
Posts
A ‘bush rose’ is a hybrid tea or floribunda rose, most patio roses too since they are invariably an HT or flori. These are presumably lumped together because they benefit from hard pruning annually. They flower exclusively on new growth each year so a good hard prune encourages the new and promotes better flowering.
A ‘shrub rose’ is an old rose (that isn’t a climber) so gallicas, albas, teas, musks, chinas, damasks etc., plus it also applies to modern roses like DA’s ‘English’ shrub roses and many others that have a good dose of old rose genes in the mix. They are a varied bunch with, well, a shrubbier growth pattern and can be rounded, arching, compact, huge, once-flowering or repeat. You are basically pruning those into a stronger, more pleasingly-shaped shrub but not as hard as bush roses.
Note: many old roses only flower on 1-3yr old wood (hold those secateurs!) so are not pruned or treated the same as those that flower on new growth.
One reason I am thinking why this hard pruning might be suggested is, that would make it branch lower down and more dense looking but actually I dont really want my roses to branch out so low down. I like to be able to clear up leaves and pull out or hoe weeds under roses with less scratches.
I am finding this discussion very useful. My current plan is to attack them all with secateurs in Feb apart from 1st or 2nd year climbers/ramblers. And I will prune the tops at least off the new bareroots unless I do succumb to the allure of Charles de Mills, which I'll leave alone- is this correct?
My specific questions are: can a hybrid perpetual like Ferdinand Pichard be hard pruned (it doesn't count as an old rose, does it?)?And Bourbon climbers like BdN (1867) can be whacked back in year three, can't they?
Really appreciate the info, all, esp Nollie!
..this is a recently planted bare root Hybrid Perpetual pruned back to 3-4 inches.. it can be left till March feeding time, it's not a problem, or just left as it was, but I like to prune things. In the days of growing more tender roses than we do today, I would have left more cane on.
In the last 12 years I have lost just 2 roses to winter cold. 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' and a 'Reine des Violettes' both bare root with thin canes that did not survive a bad winter, I think 2010-2011.. no guesses which rose nursery supplied them..
..the above rose is the famous red, sometimes purple, from Woolverstone Church, Essex... with a scent unmatched not only because of its intensity but complex notes that nobody can quite put their finger on.
Launching and developing such discussion points is what this forum is really great for.
That DA do not sell any Bush roses might explain why maybe DA do not advise hard pruning following planting, although they do list a few Floribunda's.
I've also looked through PB catalogue and, yes, they do indeed list sections of Modern Bush roses of HT'S & Floribundas, which aligns with what Nollie has said above.
Interestingly, PB list Rhapsody in Blue as a Floribunda so, as that is 1 of my on order bare roots, I'll need to consider whether to hard prune.
Interestingly, Ebb Tide too, so makes me wonder whether the weak specimens as discussed recently may have fared better had they been hard pruned following planting? Just a thought.
Gorgeous pictures, Marlorena. Thanks as always for the advice!
Thanks to Debbie from the Historic Roses Group..
Roseraie Ducher https://roseraie-ducher.com/en/
Roses Loubert https://www.pepiniere-rosesloubert.com/
Andre Eve https://www.roses-andre-eve.com/
Tuincentrum Lottum https://www.rozenlottum.nl/en_GB/c-4881616/all-available-roses/
Lens Belgium https://www.lens-roses.com/en_US
... under normal circumstances anytime from November. I like to get them all done by mid Dec, as I don't garden anymore until late Feb. I'm a bit behind this autumn but I've managed to get most done and should be finished on time. I have a couple with good hips so I have to leave those until Feb.