Plenty of artists (well known and otherwise) over the years have not earned their living from their art, as have many who have never had a formal art education … It’s not me who is classifying or de-classifying art and artists.
Using @Dovefromabove criteria, that is art and presumably music (but how do you know what sound is missing - spoken, played, sung?). But to me it is neither. I decide.
Which takes us full circle on graffiti - if the graffiti 'artist' - decides it's art and they have multiple installations, then who is to say it isn't art?
What definition are you using? There is nothing about consensus. What beauty I see in art and what emotions/feelings I get from art are mine - you may get completely different ones or none at all. So I decide what is art and what isn't do I not? We all decide. We may get consensus we may not. If you're saying that if 51/100 people say it's art then it's art, then right....... I wonder how many people would see Emin's bed as art if you held a poll?
Going back to the AI generated photo - was that art to you? Could AI create something to evoke feelings without understanding emotion and feelings? But do you as a viewer still have a feeling from what is generated irrespective? When you see a film do you know which bits are CGI and which aren't? Can a film completely made by CGI be art? was my daughter not an artist because she was a graphic artist and designed things 'in the cloud'? Who decides?
What definition are you using? There is nothing about consensus. What beauty I see in art and when emotions/feelings I get from art are mine - you may get completely different ones or none at all. So I decide what is art and what isn't do I not?
You seem to be confusing whether or not something is beautiful or expresses feelings on one hand, and your personal opinion of it on the other. Something can be Art without your personal stamp of approval. There is plenty of Art that I personally dislike or which does nothing for me, but that does not mean it isn't Art.
1) What is defined as art - and that is subjective in its own right
2) What is felt on seeing an object - which is also obviously subjective.
I do not think I've confused them. Read the definition of art I put here (or find your own) and tell me if it isn't subjective. And if it isn't subjective - put it here or tell me where it is so I can read it - as I haven't seen one that isn't. Even Dove's consensus comment implies subjectivity doesn't it?
You seem to have moved the goalposts yet again @steveTu … we were not discussing what art is .., we were (or at least I was) discussing your ability to decide what art isn’t. Very different.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
If the definition of what art is is based on subjectivity, then the subject decides what is or isn't art don't they? I haven't changed the point at all Dove.
I asked both you and Alanclark2 to give me a definition of art that is based on objectivity. So far nothing although you said about context and intention - to which I replied that if intent decides, then anyone who says 'this is art' defines their work as art do they not? My unmade bed is just as much art as Emin's.
Your context went into then having a back catalogue...which i think I also addressed. You then threw in consensus - which I think I adressed (and is also subjective anyway). Neither your context or intention (or consensus) appears to appear in the definition of art though - so aren't they your views on art then also subjective? IE your opinion is that art is defined by those things?
Football had a problem with the handball rule - as that did include 'intent' (not sure if it still does) BUT who then decides on intent? A referee can't can he? - as unless he's a mind reader he hasn't a clue.
I have seen the Unmade Bed many times when my daughter was a teenager, exactly like the work of art, to the extent that I refused to go in there and do anything. I know that if I had put it in an exhibition under my name it wouldn’t have got a 2nd look, just a few tut tuts.
Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor.
I have seen the Unmade Bed many times when my daughter was a teenager, exactly like the work of art, to the extent that I refused to go in there and do anything. I know that if I had put it in an exhibition under my name it wouldn’t have got a 2nd look, just a few tut tuts.
The thing is, that you saw it just as an unmade bed. Tracy Emin decided to name it "art", and since she was already known, she very much had a head start.
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Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
art noun (EXPRESSION)
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I know that if I had put it in an exhibition under my name it wouldn’t have got a 2nd look, just a few tut tuts.