no, I'm not at all sure. In fact I know she suffers because she has some rules, like what is allowed, what is forbidden, etc. These rules got even further relaxed now that she is ill and psychologically fragile, they are much more relaxed than what I think they should be. Thanks for pointing this out.
May I ask if you know whether your child has cross sex identified literally from birth, or has it only now become apparent to yourselves and importantly, to the child? did you notice anything between the ages of 4-6 in particular? was she gender non conforming from that early age? This may seem like an intrusive question but is the sexuality of the child apparent? are they same sex attracted? I realise these are not easy questions to answer and you may not wish to do so, but I have some experience in this field, and ultimately it does make a difference, as there are 3 distinct groups amongst female to male transitioners, it is not an homogenous group, and professionals dealing with this will probably be asking these questions too..
I am personally very positive about it and do not hold negative views, outcomes can be very positive and fulfilling.. it's just that what is little understood here is that transition is as much about a person's [child's ] developing sexuality as their gender identity, as gender identity is actually driven by sexuality.. unfortunately a lot of people don't want to admit it..
thanks for asking these questions. Not sure I understand them, tough.
This is everything I know: during pregnancy my wife, her Mum, had amniocentesis, they told us "it's a nice little girl", exact words, I will never forget them, and for the next 12yr I thought that was all. So her gender (biological, at least), was identified months before birth. She has always looked and behaved very girly, actually I would dare saying she still does. She also says she is pansexual. I had to google this: bisexuals are those who like males and females, pansexuals are those who like males and females and everybody else.
@Albe ..ok, thanks for that, you've told me something there which is quite informative... it's not what I was hoping you would say though..
.. bear with me.. The 3 distinct groups for F to M transitioners are.. 1. the Early Onset group, these trans children cross sex identify literally from birth, but becomes evident between the ages of 4-8 years old... they are gender non conforming, and will attempt to transition at that early age, by adopting the clothing, names etc, of the opposite sex... one distinguishing factor about early onset is that they are always same sex attracted i.e. homosexual... what differentiates these F to Male trans children from lesbian girls is that they have such a strong cross sex identity that their innate desire is to be seen and ultimately to live as, heterosexual males, not lesbian females... the desire is so intense that they will never conform to female gender role types. I'm not convinced that your child is of this group at this stage.
2. ROGD group.. this is Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, it typically affects early to mid teenage girls and has caused an explosion in referrals to Gender Identity clinics from this group. The reasons are thought to be more environmental, peer influenced, particularly the influence from radical feminism ... the danger for girls from this group is that they can demand operations and treatments which they later regret, and go into de-transition, because Rapid Onset can disappear as quickly as it arrives... the recent court case with a young woman called Keira Bell, highlights this issue, and I believe she came from this ROGD group, became convinced she was a man and demanded operations etc.. by early 20's she totally regretted it... you must be prepared that your daughter may be of this group, and therefore irreversible medical treatments should not be considered until more is known which direction your daughter is going in..
Some people are genuinely pansexual, I know one.. but it does have what some people term 'trans trendy' influences about it, it's trendy to be pansexual in the modern age... ultimately the child's sexuality may become more fixed. The same goes for 'non-binary' another nonsense term perpetuated by some young people who do not want to declare their sexuality, or are confused about it... bisexual in old money, but non binary is a nice trendy, feel good term which makes some feel important and different.. it really isn't..
3. The 3rd group is a little known Female to Male transitioning group, where the female child is attracted to boys, so you think she's a normal heterosexual child, but she has a disorder of her sexuality which makes her want to be a man, but a gay man, not a straight one.. this is quite rare, but these female transitioners go on to inhabit the gay male scene and mix with gay men.
To be perfectly honest, I hope your child is of the first group, as they go on to form heteronormative, heterogendered relationships with women, as heterosexual men, but at the moment from what you've told me, I'm sensing an ROGD issue here..
Professionals dealing with your child will have to evaluate this.. but at this point, a social transition which goes along with the child may simply be all that's necessary and nothing irreversible should be taking place, in my opinion..
There's no way anything 'irreversible' would be done at this point in any case. I agree with Marlorena that you should take a stance which is positive and gender-affirming. From what I've read, the vast majority of young people with gender dysphoria do not go on to transition. For those that do, the vast majority are happy with their decision and do not become 'de-transitioners'. The key to happiness in all cases is acceptance and kindness.
Being non-binary would in a sense be less drastic than being trans, it suggests they might be happy with their gender without feeling they had to fully conform to physical expectations for men or women; in which case they might not need to pursue any medical options.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
Looking back again at what you said I'm more convinced that your child is simply 'trans trending' and is not really Trans at all.. it's become quite a fashion these days for young people to state they are 'trans' when they are not. They are on the internet, youtube, social media etc.. I think the term used to define them is 'tucute'... ... I'm not seeing anything in what you've said so far that indicates a True Transsexual identity going on there, including the Pansexual assertion which is quite a thing for an 11 year old child to make... ...it all smacks of trendy influences at work, which she may well grow out of, and develop a heteronormative lifestyle, or maybe lesbian, in the future... the risk is that she develops this ROGD syndrome, which tends to become extreme at mid-teens..
It is a social contagion and is not psycho-biologically driven..
I wouldn't be too concerned about it at this stage...
... I'm not seeing anything in what you've said so far that indicates a True Transsexual identity going on there
Maybe you are right. In fact, this is also the opinion of my wife, her Mum. My wife keeps telling me she is still too girly to be trans, and she likes boys. Also, partly because of her age, she can still be extremely easily influenced by whoever whatever happen to be 'cool' here and there. Her 'transitioning' happened a short time after she started using internet on her own. She uses it in moderation, and sometimes I wish she didn't have any internet at all but hey it would do no good to lock her in a glass bubble prison.
Whether you are right nor not, thanks a lot for expressing your opinion. Much appreciated.
In either case the worst thing you could do is take an oppositional stance about it. I wouldn't want to be turning it into a battle of wills, I would try and be accepting as possible while leaving room for a change of heart.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
As much as possible I'd avoid labelling and just love and support your child and let them find a path and skin they can live in/on. Like I have to tell you
There’s an important difference between saying “I want to be a boy” and “I am a boy”.
When I was a young child I often thought that being a boy would be better. All the freedom it brought. All the leniency and none of the curbs on one’s activities. All the fun and none of the “you can’t do that - you’re a girl”.
I never once thought “I am a boy” though.
Are you sure that your daughter is not just wanting more freedom to do what boys can do and girls (sadly) still can’t?
Pansyface has voiced similar concerns to mine. Many children dream/fantasise about being something or somebody else so how is the difference between that and a deep belief in being in 'the wrong body' identified with certainty?
Posts
no, I'm not at all sure.
In fact I know she suffers because she has some rules, like what is allowed, what is forbidden, etc. These rules got even further relaxed now that she is ill and psychologically fragile, they are much more relaxed than what I think they should be.
Thanks for pointing this out.
This may seem like an intrusive question but is the sexuality of the child apparent? are they same sex attracted?
I realise these are not easy questions to answer and you may not wish to do so, but I have some experience in this field, and ultimately it does make a difference, as there are 3 distinct groups amongst female to male transitioners, it is not an homogenous group, and professionals dealing with this will probably be asking these questions too..
I am personally very positive about it and do not hold negative views, outcomes can be very positive and fulfilling.. it's just that what is little understood here is that transition is as much about a person's [child's ] developing sexuality as their gender identity, as gender identity is actually driven by sexuality.. unfortunately a lot of people don't want to admit it..
thanks for asking these questions. Not sure I understand them, tough.
This is everything I know:
during pregnancy my wife, her Mum, had amniocentesis, they told us "it's a nice little girl", exact words, I will never forget them, and for the next 12yr I thought that was all. So her gender (biological, at least), was identified months before birth. She has always looked and behaved very girly, actually I would dare saying she still does.
She also says she is pansexual. I had to google this: bisexuals are those who like males and females, pansexuals are those who like males and females and everybody else.
..ok, thanks for that, you've told me something there which is quite informative... it's not what I was hoping you would say though..
.. bear with me..
The 3 distinct groups for F to M transitioners are..
1. the Early Onset group, these trans children cross sex identify literally from birth, but becomes evident between the ages of 4-8 years old... they are gender non conforming, and will attempt to transition at that early age, by adopting the clothing, names etc, of the opposite sex... one distinguishing factor about early onset is that they are always same sex attracted i.e. homosexual... what differentiates these F to Male trans children from lesbian girls is that they have such a strong cross sex identity that their innate desire is to be seen and ultimately to live as, heterosexual males, not lesbian females... the desire is so intense that they will never conform to female gender role types.
I'm not convinced that your child is of this group at this stage.
2. ROGD group.. this is Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, it typically affects early to mid teenage girls and has caused an explosion in referrals to Gender Identity clinics from this group. The reasons are thought to be more environmental, peer influenced, particularly the influence from radical feminism ... the danger for girls from this group is that they can demand operations and treatments which they later regret, and go into de-transition, because Rapid Onset can disappear as quickly as it arrives... the recent court case with a young woman called Keira Bell, highlights this issue, and I believe she came from this ROGD group, became convinced she was a man and demanded operations etc.. by early 20's she totally regretted it... you must be prepared that your daughter may be of this group, and therefore irreversible medical treatments should not be considered until more is known which direction your daughter is going in..
Some people are genuinely pansexual, I know one.. but it does have what some people term 'trans trendy' influences about it, it's trendy to be pansexual in the modern age... ultimately the child's sexuality may become more fixed. The same goes for 'non-binary' another nonsense term perpetuated by some young people who do not want to declare their sexuality, or are confused about it... bisexual in old money, but non binary is a nice trendy, feel good term which makes some feel important and different.. it really isn't..
3. The 3rd group is a little known Female to Male transitioning group, where the female child is attracted to boys, so you think she's a normal heterosexual child, but she has a disorder of her sexuality which makes her want to be a man, but a gay man, not a straight one.. this is quite rare, but these female transitioners go on to inhabit the gay male scene and mix with gay men.
To be perfectly honest, I hope your child is of the first group, as they go on to form heteronormative, heterogendered relationships with women, as heterosexual men, but at the moment from what you've told me, I'm sensing an ROGD issue here..
Professionals dealing with your child will have to evaluate this.. but at this point, a social transition which goes along with the child may simply be all that's necessary and nothing irreversible should be taking place, in my opinion..
Being non-binary would in a sense be less drastic than being trans, it suggests they might be happy with their gender without feeling they had to fully conform to physical expectations for men or women; in which case they might not need to pursue any medical options.
... I'm not seeing anything in what you've said so far that indicates a True Transsexual identity going on there, including the Pansexual assertion which is quite a thing for an 11 year old child to make...
...it all smacks of trendy influences at work, which she may well grow out of, and develop a heteronormative lifestyle, or maybe lesbian, in the future... the risk is that she develops this ROGD syndrome, which tends to become extreme at mid-teens..
I wouldn't be too concerned about it at this stage...
Also, partly because of her age, she can still be extremely easily influenced by whoever whatever happen to be 'cool' here and there.
Her 'transitioning' happened a short time after she started using internet on her own. She uses it in moderation, and sometimes I wish she didn't have any internet at all but hey it would do no good to lock her in a glass bubble prison.
Whether you are right nor not, thanks a lot for expressing your opinion. Much appreciated.