Thanks for all your comments. @Jac19 water just runs through the soil, as it is top thin and dusty to hold moisture. It certainly doesn't turn solidify in any way, the opposite is happening. @robairdmacraignil it's a yard bag, and appears cheaper than most others I can find, I don't know any farmers with horses or cattle and don't have the room to allow the rotting process to happen. @Simone_in_Wiltshire thanks for your advice. The soil has been well worked over the last 90 odd years (well before I arrived!) The problem isn't so much breaking the soil down, as building it up. I think it has had so much added to it over the years that it has lost its moisture holding properties
Definitely manure @gjautos - it's easily the best thing to improve any kind of soil. Sandy; light, dry soil is improved because the manure helps to retain moisture in it. It does the opposite for heavy, solid, sticky clay as it breaks up the particles and makes it freer draining, which is always the problem with clay. That sand will make clay soil even worse as @Hostafan1 describes. In a border, even using grit will have little effect because you'd need add tons and tons of it. Pea gravel can be useful, as smaller amounts will help create some gaps, but there's no doubt - manure [horse is best] is the answer. If you can't get it from a local source, the bagged stuff is fine.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Thanks for the quick answer @Dovefromabove It doesnt matter as I will be using it on flower beds. But the company state not suitable for veg growing. Any idea why that would be? I have a veg bed so will look elsewhere for something for that
Adding manure of any sort repeatedly over the years can acidify soil a tad which would then not be ideal for brassicas. However you could add a little lime if that was a concern. It’s what farmers and allotment holders have been doing for generations. I’d happily use it on veg as well as decorative borders.
It is now illegal to use aminopyralid on pastures or forage crops that will be fed to animals whose manure will leave the farm (eg to be sold). (That’s a bit of a convoluted sentence but I’m ‘quoting’ 😵💫 from memory from a DEFRA document (I’m away on holiday at the moment) ….. so the danger of contamination should have passed …. however earlier this year the forum received some photographs of veg that looked as if they’d been damaged by hormone weedkiller. There are many ways that sort of thing can happen … the use of treated lawn clippings in a compost bin for instance.
It could have been in purchased bags of manure or compost, but without testing …..???
I would expect a racing stables who sold manure to the public as part of their business, to adhere to the regulations, and I can’t see a reason why I wouldn’t buy it, all other things being equal.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Utter nonsense. "The coarse sand or grit is used as a physical conditioner to allow excess water to drain from the compost and thus prevent water-logging. It also helps to provide stability for larger plants." The component in JI that improves drainage is actually Horticultural grit/sand.
> Horticultural sand will have no effect. Horticultural sand/grit or Sharp Sand, as it is sometimes called, "Sharp Sand can be sprinkled and forked in to peat and compost for root cuttings and propagating cuttings as it can improve the soil’s overall drainage. By adding Sharp Sand to heavy, clay-based soil it can help break down the soil, creating channels for excess water to drain through."
Put manure at the top to help after improving drainage. "Along with roots sitting in wet soil, compacted soil that doesn’t drain well can also contribute to run off meaning water doesn’t get absorbed at all. Plant roots can also be starved of oxygen if the soil is compacted. Sand is a good and cheap way to improve drainage. Incorporating it into your garden soil will help break it up and help aerate for healthier roots. Many hard soils have little organic matter, so adding in some well-rotted organic compost such as manure or garden compost helps break down clumps of soil and provides nutrients needed for your plants to grow. Soil conditioners can also help or try green manure and leaf mulch."
In an average border full of heavy clay, you'd need tons of it. Very expensive compared to manure, because you'd only need a couple of bags to the same [actually a better] job.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
@Jac19 You have admitted on a previous thread that you are a beginner gardener, with little or no practical experience. Will you please stop copying and pasting things you have read on the internet, as you will confuse people that are coming onto the forum for advice from experienced gardeners. You are trying to give unsuspecting questioners the impression you know what you are talking about, when in your own words you are a fantasy fiction writer.
There's certainly a lot of manure around @Balgay.Hill Apologies @gjautos - I was assuming you were talking about beds/borders in general rather than veg beds. If the latter - bear in mind what @Dovefromabove is describing
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Not much H. sand/grit needed. John Innes No.3 recipe contains only 1/6th H. grit/sand and that is the best. I make the mix about 1/6th H Sand and fork it into the dug up soil well. Mulch in the manure at the top. I add some Fish, Blood, and Bone fertilizer in granular format and add in some beneficial bacteria fertilizer on top. The above has done the thing needed in the worst soil. over years. We used that for planting in the National Trust conservation groups, too.
Posts
@robairdmacraignil it's a yard bag, and appears cheaper than most others I can find, I don't know any farmers with horses or cattle and don't have the room to allow the rotting process to happen.
@Simone_in_Wiltshire thanks for your advice. The soil has been well worked over the last 90 odd years (well before I arrived!) The problem isn't so much breaking the soil down, as building it up. I think it has had so much added to it over the years that it has lost its moisture holding properties
It does the opposite for heavy, solid, sticky clay as it breaks up the particles and makes it freer draining, which is always the problem with clay.
That sand will make clay soil even worse as @Hostafan1 describes. In a border, even using grit will have little effect because you'd need add tons and tons of it. Pea gravel can be useful, as smaller amounts will help create some gaps, but there's no doubt - manure [horse is best] is the answer. If you can't get it from a local source, the bagged stuff is fine.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Utter nonsense. "The coarse sand or grit is used as a physical conditioner to allow excess water to drain from the compost and thus prevent water-logging. It also helps to provide stability for larger plants." The component in JI that improves drainage is actually Horticultural grit/sand.
https://www.gardeningdata.co.uk/soil/john_innes/john_innes.php
> Horticultural sand will have no effect.
Horticultural sand/grit or Sharp Sand, as it is sometimes called, "Sharp Sand can be sprinkled and forked in to peat and compost for root cuttings and propagating cuttings as it can improve the soil’s overall drainage. By adding Sharp Sand to heavy, clay-based soil it can help break down the soil, creating channels for excess water to drain through."
https://www.gardenworld.co.uk/product/sharp-sand/
Put manure at the top to help after improving drainage.
"Along with roots sitting in wet soil, compacted soil that doesn’t drain well can also contribute to run off meaning water doesn’t get absorbed at all. Plant roots can also be starved of oxygen if the soil is compacted. Sand is a good and cheap way to improve drainage. Incorporating it into your garden soil will help break it up and help aerate for healthier roots. Many hard soils have little organic matter, so adding in some well-rotted organic compost such as manure or garden compost helps break down clumps of soil and provides nutrients needed for your plants to grow. Soil conditioners can also help or try green manure and leaf mulch."
https://www.stpetersgardencentre.co.uk/news/110/improve-soil-drainage
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
You have admitted on a previous thread that you are a beginner gardener, with little or no practical experience.
Will you please stop copying and pasting things you have read on the internet, as you will confuse people that are coming onto the forum for advice from experienced gardeners. You are trying to give unsuspecting questioners the impression you know what you are talking about, when in your own words you are a fantasy fiction writer.
Apologies @gjautos - I was assuming you were talking about beds/borders in general rather than veg beds. If the latter - bear in mind what @Dovefromabove is describing
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Mulch in the manure at the top.
I add some Fish, Blood, and Bone fertilizer in granular format and add in some beneficial bacteria fertilizer on top.
The above has done the thing needed in the worst soil. over years.
We used that for planting in the National Trust conservation groups, too.
Cheap at £3.99
RHS HORTICULTURAL GRIT SAND
RHS HORTICULTURAL SHARP SAND
This is the farmyard manure I buy at £5
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Gro-Sure-Farmyard-Manure---50L/p/132290