England and Scotland were united under one crown at the beginning of the 17thC when James VI of Scotland inherited the throne on the death of Elizabeth I and became James I. They did not unite as a political, religious or trading entity for another century and only then after Scotland was bankrupted by its investment in the failed Darien scheme and needed bailing out. It was not a military conquest or a philosophical meeting of minds or a diplomatic process but an economic necessity.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Pedantic hat on for a minute. Catalan situation in Spain is equivalent to Scottish independence. Brexit would be equivalent to Spain leaving the EU.
Stating the obvious but the pedantry charter means I must correct the last sentence in kili's second paragraph. I mean no offence but it had to be done.
PS don't tell the Little Scotlanders in the SNP about your view of nationalism. Certainly not online on some non political websites I frequent. There's a strong Scottish nationalist element online who jump at anyone questioning Scottish independence.
If nationalism is wrong, what about devolution? Division into nations I assume is wrong but what about devolving political decisions of state down to smaller regions, is that considered right or wrong? Localism vs whatever you'd call large population sized decision making.
Yeah its pedantic NorthernJoe and your wrong its simply not the same situation as Scotland. Catalonia hasn't been an independent country since 1496. If you want to go down that route we could start with regions in England wanting independence such as Cornwall, just not the same situation
So a little before Scotland lost its independence but does it matter when it lost it if it too has a strong national identity?
The point being both former independent countries want independence from a greater union. What's the difference? There really is no difference. That analogy is closer than comparing the independence of one union of nations from a larger union like the UK from the EU. That was my point.
As an aside I believe catalan culture was always strong. They have never felt Spanish and the rest of Spain looked differently at them apparently. Within Spain they tended tie have a worse deal than the rest despite contributing more than their size. They kept their culture and weren't subsumed into Spain despite relative oppression in the past. The language too had a huge resurgence with many schools teaching in it and not Spanish. It's got a lot of similarities with gaeltracht protection of the language and Welsh language promotion. Again Wales is a nation within a union with a strong national identity and culture.
England and Scotland were united under one crown at the beginning of the 17thC when James VI of Scotland inherited the throne on the death of Elizabeth I and became James I. They did not unite as a political, religious or trading entity for another century and only then after Scotland was bankrupted by its investment in the failed Darien scheme and needed bailing out. It was not a military conquest or a philosophical meeting of minds or a diplomatic process but an economic necessity.
The occupation I refer to was not of a Military nature. Even today Scotland's Government are still subject to the authority of the English government.
Could it be said then that as James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne that England is subject to the whims of Scotland or has that moment passed .... I think so as doesn't the present Royal family have German descent, boy these Royals get around don't they..
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
Sussex for the Saxons I say...oops, they (well, roughly them) got it back in the 18th century...forgot about that. Maybe we should go back to the Atrebates...but who was there before them...and before them...and...
We all just wander around the globe anyway, trying our best just to survive and have a better life eh? Or else we end up like Trump who builds walls to keep people 'orf his green grass, forgetting that he's an immigrant that nicked that green grass from someone else...who probably nicked it from someone else.
Had to Google Atrebates. Yeah lets go back to our Roots before those nasty Normans invaded England.
Wait til that spaceship appears overhead maybe the planet will unite then.
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
I see your points and raise you The Midlothian Question.
Lol... thats one big can of worms I'll leave others to sort out. All I will say is independence for all nations will negate that issue.
The only complicated situation on the horizon is that of Eire and NI a situation which maybe over time resolved naturally as the births of one religious sect out pace the other.
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
Posts
The point being both former independent countries want independence from a greater union. What's the difference? There really is no difference. That analogy is closer than comparing the independence of one union of nations from a larger union like the UK from the EU. That was my point.
As an aside I believe catalan culture was always strong. They have never felt Spanish and the rest of Spain looked differently at them apparently. Within Spain they tended tie have a worse deal than the rest despite contributing more than their size. They kept their culture and weren't subsumed into Spain despite relative oppression in the past. The language too had a huge resurgence with many schools teaching in it and not Spanish. It's got a lot of similarities with gaeltracht protection of the language and Welsh language promotion. Again Wales is a nation within a union with a strong national identity and culture.
The occupation I refer to was not of a Military nature. Even today Scotland's Government are still subject to the authority of the English government.
Could it be said then that as James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne that England is subject to the whims of Scotland or has that moment passed
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw'
Had to Google Atrebates. Yeah lets go back to our Roots before those nasty Normans invaded England.
Wait til that spaceship appears overhead maybe the planet will unite then.
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw'
Lol... thats one big can of worms I'll leave others to sort out. All I will say is independence for all nations will negate that issue.
The only complicated situation on the horizon is that of Eire and NI a situation which maybe over time resolved naturally as the births of one religious sect out pace the other.
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw'
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.