"We all have our views on plastic grass... and that's fine obviously, but if you'd like to sign:"
So is it fine or do you want to stop other people from having plastic grass?
Please, don't say things like "it's fine to have an opinion", just say it how it is "I am OK with using violence against people to stop them from having plastic grass."
Wow..I genuinely don't know how to respond that!
It's not personal. I know this is well-meant. Which is what makes it even more painful to freedom-sensitive people.
Do you want the ban to happen? I would assume yes if you signed the petition. Do you realize there are people who will have to stop doing something (making or selling plastic grass)? Yes, that's the point of the ban. Do you want the state to use force to stop them? Again, that's the point of the ban.
This is everything that's there to it.
@Biglad What is your definition of violence? Does state use violence to enforce its laws (like a potential ban of plastic grass)? Or is it not violence because the state has a democratic mandate to do it? Even if it only represents the majority of people and not all of them? Does the democratic mandate change the nature of the act (making it not violent)? Maybe yes, if you see the social contract as a real contract. I can respect that opinion. I can also respect if someone sees it as violence but also sees it as a necessary evil for society to function.
I don't have any problem with society/tax payers finding new jobs for people who have hither too been employed making cigarettes or land mines. Their jobs produce unnecessary life threatening products.
The argument that wiping out jobs making plastic grass is violent simply does not make any sense in any universe I know and I'm afraid life is just to short to try and comprehend the kind of brain that thinks that way.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
I wouldn't call any laws, rules or sanctions violent in themselves. I also can't imagine any violence being used to uphold a ban on artificial grass. Those affected may feel unfairly treated, restricted, discriminated against, perhaps, but, providing any ban is arrived at in a democratic and reasonable (I appreciate that defining democratic and reasonable could be another debate entirely) manner, I just can't see how violence fits in. In this context, I just think it an odd and inflammatory word to use.
For the record, I don't feel I have enough knowledge on the subject to sign a petition at this time. At the moment I'm of the opinion 'each to their own' but would never entertain the idea for my garden. Coincidentally, my OH has recently suggested that we replace our waterlogged lawn with artificial grass. This won't happen as long as I live here but does this mean that I've used violence against the OH?
I can’t see any difference in the disposal of artificial grass in years to come compared to the disposal of millions of dead batteries, from people who have thought that battery operated tools and cars will save the planet.
I doubt whether tiny children from four years old are involved in the making of plastic grass, although I could be wrong but I don’t think that would be such hard work than smashing rocks and making kids carry them to extract Lithium.
I won’t be signing for a ban no more than I will sign for a ban against battery operated tools and cars. Live and let live, if you want the grass, have it. (Not that those poor kids live, most die when they are teenage)
Slave labour, don’t get me started!
Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor.
I also can't imagine any violence being used to uphold a ban on artificial grass. Those affected may feel unfairly treated, restricted, discriminated against, perhaps, but, providing any ban is arrived at in a democratic and reasonable (I appreciate that defining democratic and reasonable could be another debate entirely) manner, I just can't see how violence fits in. In this context, I just think it an odd and inflammatory word to use.
Imagine someone making artificial grass in an illegal factory and selling it on the black market (like someone making illegal drugs and selling them to people who want to use them). I think someone would come and put them in prison, eventually.
It's centuries old question, what gives the state the legitimacy of its authority over an individual. The idea of the social contract is that we as people surrender some of our rights to the state and submit to the authority of a ruler or a majority in exchange for protection of the remaining rights. I see it as giving the state a monopoly on violence in exchange for maintaining the social order. If you accept the idea of the social contract (and modern democracies are built on that principle), it makes sense to not see it as violence. The reason why I call it violence is because I know for a fact there are people who don't accept the concept of the social contract (and I am one of them, obviously). Or we could use a more modern phrase "consent of the governed" but the problem is still the same, it doesn't exist. It's just a convenient fiction.
That's just if someone wants to see why I see it as I do. If you think, like Obelixx, that life is too short to try to understand different political philosophies, that's fine. I think we are too deep anyway, certainly for a gardening forum
I remain bamboozled by the original proposal in the petition.
My 2x year old neighbours are to be turned into criminals by having a 2m x 2m piece of artiifical grass to play on with their 2 year old, whilst every football club and sports park in the country can have 1 or 5 acres of astroturf with impunity. So it's not even a real ban, which is just lunatic.
I think the "recycling" thing is a total red herring, since this can be recycled. In which case they should be demanding regulations on that - which would be better addressed with a British Standard or voluntary initiative.
I think the drainage thing is another red herring, as that is mainly to do with whether the base is built properly or not - which should involve aggregate and sand usually. And in the context of a garden only part of it would be covered. And that would be better addressed through Building Regulations.
All in all, imo a rather ill-considered, slightly bonkers proposal. Very lazy. Petitions - fine, but at least think about the proposals.
(Afaik batteries are also substantially recyclable / recycled.)
“Rivers know this ... we will get there in the end.”
Posts
Do you realize there are people who will have to stop doing something (making or selling plastic grass)? Yes, that's the point of the ban.
Do you want the state to use force to stop them? Again, that's the point of the ban.
The argument that wiping out jobs making plastic grass is violent simply does not make any sense in any universe I know and I'm afraid life is just to short to try and comprehend the kind of brain that thinks that way.
For the record, I don't feel I have enough knowledge on the subject to sign a petition at this time. At the moment I'm of the opinion 'each to their own' but would never entertain the idea for my garden. Coincidentally, my OH has recently suggested that we replace our waterlogged lawn with artificial grass. This won't happen as long as I live here but does this mean that I've used violence against the OH?
I doubt whether tiny children from four years old are involved in the making of plastic grass, although I could be wrong but I don’t think that would be such hard work than smashing rocks and making kids carry them to extract Lithium.
I won’t be signing for a ban no more than I will sign for a ban against battery operated tools and cars. Live and let live, if you want the grass, have it. (Not that those poor kids live, most die when they are teenage)
Slave labour, don’t get me started!
My 2x year old neighbours are to be turned into criminals by having a 2m x 2m piece of artiifical grass to play on with their 2 year old, whilst every football club and sports park in the country can have 1 or 5 acres of astroturf with impunity. So it's not even a real ban, which is just lunatic.
I think the "recycling" thing is a total red herring, since this can be recycled. In which case they should be demanding regulations on that - which would be better addressed with a British Standard or voluntary initiative.
I think the drainage thing is another red herring, as that is mainly to do with whether the base is built properly or not - which should involve aggregate and sand usually. And in the context of a garden only part of it would be covered. And that would be better addressed through Building Regulations.
All in all, imo a rather ill-considered, slightly bonkers proposal. Very lazy. Petitions - fine, but at least think about the proposals.
(Afaik batteries are also substantially recyclable / recycled.)