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Ban Artificial Grass petition

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  • edhelkaedhelka Posts: 2,351
    "We all have our views on plastic grass... and that's fine obviously, but if you'd like to sign:"
    So is it fine or do you want to stop other people from having plastic grass?
    Please, don't say things like "it's fine to have an opinion", just say it how it is "I am OK with using violence against people to stop them from having plastic grass."
  • edhelkaedhelka Posts: 2,351
    Yes, a ban is fundamentally violence. It means that someone (makers of the product in this case) has to stop doing what they are doing. If they don't stop, they will be forced to stop through fines, prosecution and eventually prison (if they don't cooperate with previous steps).
    Advocating for a ban is advocating for violence against a group of people. Although this is an inherent property of democracy - majority forcing their will over minority - we shouldn't sugar-coat it and call it something else.
    We live in this system and it is generally accepted but that's also why so many people don't see it as such.
    Advocating for a ban (telling people to sign a petition) while saying "it's fine to have different views" is such a stark contrast that I couldn't stay silent. A ban means forcing your view (although trough democratic means) on the whole society. So someone can have a different opinion as long as he/she is forced to comply with the ban.
    A non-violent way would be educating people and trying to cause a cultural change.
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    edhelka said:
    Advocating for a ban is advocating for violence against a group of people. Although this is an inherent property of democracy - majority forcing their will over minority - we shouldn't sugar-coat it and call it something else.
    Your post is violence by your own definition :/ 


    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • ObelixxObelixx Posts: 30,090
    Utterly ludicrous @edhelka.   Banning something is often enlightened and follows active public campaigning - banning child labour, for example, banning smoking in public places, banning slavery.  I could go on.

    Plastic grass is a horror from both an aesthetic and an environmental view so people need to think very carefully about all the other options before they install it and it should definitely be subject to planning and environmental regulations where it is installed.   As @Dovefromabove says it is useful in certain situations in which safety is usually paramount.
    Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
    "The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
    Plato
  • B3B3 Posts: 27,505
    Is violence another word that has changed its meaning?

    I haven't signed. I'm uncomfortable about banning things just because I don't like them.
    I realise some people like parsnips, forsythia and ceanothus but rather than banning them, I would prefer to convince the deluded of the error of their ways .

    BTW. I blame greengrocers and vegetable stall holders . They have displayed their wares on plastic grass for many years.
    In London. Keen but lazy.
  • pansyface said:
    I’m not religious, but aren’t the Ten Commandments bans? Thou shalt not, and all that?

    (Not that I have ever coveted my neighbour’s wife.)
    Think they're advisory ... think twice before you do this because could be seriously pissing the neighbour off, and anyway it's certain that your time in purgatory will be longer than otherwise 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • B3B3 Posts: 27,505
    What about his ox or, God forbid, his ass?
    In London. Keen but lazy.
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    The thing with petitions is that starting one called 'Perhaps the government could consider some way to regulate the production and use of non-recyclable plastics in household garden contexts please' isn't very catchy. The principal is the same though and the end result would be the same. I bet if you added up the weight of every plastic solar garden feature that is now in landfill it would be similar to the amount of plastic grass sharing the same fate. Telling future generations that we were just exercising our democratic rights to cause as much waste and pollution as we like isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. 
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • edhelkaedhelka Posts: 2,351
    Your post is violence by your own definition :/ 
    No, it isn't. My post was only about the contradiction in OP's words.
    B3 said:
    Is violence another word that has changed its meaning?
    No, not really. It would be easier to understand if you happen to be on the receiving end.
    B3 said:
    I'm uncomfortable about banning things just because I don't like them.
    I realise some people like parsnips, forsythia and ceanothus but rather than banning them, I would prefer to convince the deluded of the error of their ways .
    Exactly.

    Obviously, there's always the question if it is OK to use violence (how much of it) to do greater good or for a common cause and some people are going to be utilitarians (advocating any means as long as the results are worth it or wanting the greatest benefits for the greatest number of people) and some are going to be idealists, having some limit on how far they are willing to go. This is the greatest question in every political debate. But at the moment, everyone, who isn't an anarchist, advocates some violence for the greater good. Democracy is based on balancing the needs of different groups of people but once the compromise is found, it is enforced by a state.

    I don't have an artificial lawn, don't want to have it, don't like it. But as long as it is made without causing any harm to other people or nature (which can be done) and disposed of in a way which again doesn't harm anyone (which also can be done or there are compensations of the harm done that can be paid), I don't see how I have moral right to prevent someone from having it.
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    So banning plastic grass is 'violence' but banning people using the word ban isn't?  :/  You certainly have a unique way of thinking I'll give you that.
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
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