...more roses @Nollie please... don't let me be the only one.. incidentally I ordered my roses from Roseraie Ducher yesterday and I have been informed they have been despatched today.... fast work... I like that.... now... what else ?>..lol...
@newbie77 .... just to say, regarding your lawn turf... the way to do it is when you dig up a piece you will have a thick piece of clod with the grass on top... with the spade you should slice off as much of the soil as you can, leaving that on the surface, and then you will be left with a thinner piece of turf which you should be able to pick up in one hand... lay this grass side down on top of the soil you just removed and slice it into quarters, and leave to rot.... when planting anything... you can incorporate this into the bottom of the hole...
...just take your time... do a bit by bit over winter...
You are such a bad influence, @Marlorena Not that I need much encouragement. If I did get Sandringham, it would have to be in place of a Gertrude Jekyll with climbing ambitions. I have her in a pot currently and was going to plant her in the ground and train her a bit against a low fence or trellis. It’s either-or, I don’t think I can fit both in. It would be easier to just plant a new bare root rose than trying to extract GJ from that big heavy pot, though...
I have limited spots for roses in pots, as the pots need to be fully shaded or they bake, so that curbs my buying tendencies a bit, plus the massive effort it takes to hack out the ground to plant more...
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
@Nollie I love Sandringham for its scent, would you be able to smell it or would be one of those roses which you can't smell? Can you smell Gertrude Jekyll or Munstead Wood?
Regarding its habit, Beales describe it as "growing to approximately 150cm in height and 120cm in width this rose is
ideal for mass planting or equally as a specimen plant. If trained
against an obelisk or pillar the rose is also pliable enough to grow as a
small climber". Which I read as that it's going to be similar in habit to lankier long cane bourbons. A large shrub with arching canes or a pillar/obelisk climber. But it's just guessing.
Marlorena's new rose, Florence Ducher, is a new old rose, a 2005 cross of MIP and MEC. If they did it well (growing a lot of seedlings, choosing the best one) it has the potential to be a rose with the best from its parents (fragrance, beauty) but better disease resistance. Making what is already good even better without adding any new blood, just strengthening what good is already there, in its genes, I like it. (I think David Austin do this a lot, crossing their roses with itself or with similar varieties again and again, that's why their new varieties tend to be better than older ones but of course, they don't publish what they do). Anyway, to end this monologue I am curious and looking forward to seeing how Marlorena likes this rose and if it really is better than its parents. I think I need more bourbons...
Ugh, why is it that when you want rain, it doesn’t come for months, then when you are making good progress digging out your new rose bed, the heavens open and you are forced indoors?!
@edhelka, yes, I can smell Gertrude Jekyll pretty well and this year even got a fruity whiff of Munstead Wood - faint but there. I do have to consider OH too, who does love a good scented rose. It does sound as if Sandringham may be easier to bend and train against the short 1m high fence than GJ, the latter does have rather stiff stems. Decisions, decisions, as I say, I can’t fit both in. I could get Sandringham and just leave GJ in the big pot to enjoy that first marvellous flush. It acts like a once-flowering really, with just the occasional bloom later on. I do remember you though the scent of Sandringham was amazing, but can’t remember what else you said about it, reasonably healthy? Did it bloom well?
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
@Nollie I only had it for a short time and as a 1st year rose. I saw it for the first time in our local garden centre at the end of June (in full flower, its 1st flush, healthy but they certainly spray), bought it 7th of July and planted in partial shade spot. It put on a lot of new growth but staying small shrub, no long canes yet. Reflowered in the last two weeks of August. Which means 6-7 weeks between flushes, no blooms in between. I think it could do 3 flushes per year when it is more mature but 2 are quite normal here. It was still healthy at the end of August, it got blackspot at the beginning of October. I plan to grow it on a trellis panel so I don't mind if it gets blackspot later in the season, it won't be too visible there.
@Marlorena I find it interesting how little is known about old roses. And often even the most experienced people disagree about the identity of some rose or are unsure if two roses in commerce, propagated from two different original plants, are the same variety or not. It could be some known damask perpetual/portland or it could be a lost rose, as you said, and it would be probably very hard to be sure about the ID. I've heard we only have 10% of varieties available in the 19th century. The question is if it is worth it to grow very rare varieties and maybe help to preserve them. When almost certainly, whoever is going to own this garden after me, throw away everything that I have here.
...I would think if it was known what is really is, it would be out there in the public domain on HMF...it's been around for long enough... and when you think that one of the world's most renowned rosarians, Greg Lowery, of Vintage Gardens in California had it in his collection... he would have known... so I shall accept it as a ''found'' rose..
...I like to grow unusual roses sometimes... I don't intend to keep them forever, and like you say, no one else is likely to either... I just hope it has a decent scent, it will encourage me to hold on to it...
Here’s a better representation! Although still not to scale, the whole garden is a few metres too short, I’ve missed out a whole section of bed between the crab apple on the left and the aster were there’s lavender and herbs.
Anyway, the three circles represent places roses could go - and the three roses at the bottom right are the ones that need a space.
I could actually fit another circle between the top one and Vanessa bell so long as the rose could be kept short.
I put the photos on to try and help me picture it but I’m still unsure which ones to put where.
If a plant is overlapping a boundary then it is climbing. The crab apple on the left is going to be espaliered, so is the apple at the top.
Im glad I did this, as actually I think that pink bed with Munstead wood in the middle looks quite nice! I wasn’t sure until now!
Posts
...more roses @Nollie please... don't let me be the only one.. incidentally I ordered my roses from Roseraie Ducher yesterday and I have been informed they have been despatched today.... fast work... I like that.... now... what else ?>..lol...
...just take your time... do a bit by bit over winter...
I have limited spots for roses in pots, as the pots need to be fully shaded or they bake, so that curbs my buying tendencies a bit, plus the massive effort it takes to hack out the ground to plant more...
@edhelka, yes, I can smell Gertrude Jekyll pretty well and this year even got a fruity whiff of Munstead Wood - faint but there. I do have to consider OH too, who does love a good scented rose. It does sound as if Sandringham may be easier to bend and train against the short 1m high fence than GJ, the latter does have rather stiff stems. Decisions, decisions, as I say, I can’t fit both in. I could get Sandringham and just leave GJ in the big pot to enjoy that first marvellous flush. It acts like a once-flowering really, with just the occasional bloom later on. I do remember you though the scent of Sandringham was amazing, but can’t remember what else you said about it, reasonably healthy? Did it bloom well?
...this is 'Boufarik' on HMF.... listed with a different spelling to the name...
https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=45835%22&tab=1
..as I suspected, likely imported there by the French under some other name originally..
...I'm wondering now if it might be the same as what is usually sold as 'Rose du Roi' , which would be funny as Beales sells that ….
It could be some known damask perpetual/portland or it could be a lost rose, as you said, and it would be probably very hard to be sure about the ID.
I've heard we only have 10% of varieties available in the 19th century.
The question is if it is worth it to grow very rare varieties and maybe help to preserve them. When almost certainly, whoever is going to own this garden after me, throw away everything that I have here.
...I like to grow unusual roses sometimes... I don't intend to keep them forever, and like you say, no one else is likely to either... I just hope it has a decent scent, it will encourage me to hold on to it...
Here’s a better representation! Although still not to scale, the whole garden is a few metres too short, I’ve missed out a whole section of bed between the crab apple on the left and the aster were there’s lavender and herbs.
Anyway, the three circles represent places roses could go - and the three roses at the bottom right are the ones that need a space.
I could actually fit another circle between the top one and Vanessa bell so long as the rose could be kept short.
I put the photos on to try and help me picture it but I’m still unsure which ones to put where.
If a plant is overlapping a boundary then it is climbing. The crab apple on the left is going to be espaliered, so is the apple at the top.
Im glad I did this, as actually I think that pink bed with Munstead wood in the middle looks quite nice! I wasn’t sure until now!