watched Paxman last night. Question Time too.....nobody on the panel impressed
I try to be objective.
if we could control our borders I would not be too concerned either way and I really wamted Cameron to get those powers in his "negotiations" . Controlling our borders just means numbers.
whatever the outcome of the referendum big changes will take place. To me it is a worry
I think most of us are concerned, Verdun. If the EU were to remain the size it is, it would be almost acceptable to me; however, the thought of 80 MILLION Turks joining, sooner or later, is a real concern.
Though there are many EU migrants here now, they are, generally speaking, young and healthy and, apparently, contribute to our economy more than a billion pounds a year, over and above what they cost. It's those from the commonwealth who come here permanently and bring with them their older relatives too, who cost the economy over £15 billion. So, how we vote won't change the latter situation.
Free movement within the EU means, of course, that many Brits can live and work wherever they choose within it. In Spain alone there a million British immigrants working/living very happily and won't be pleased if we vote to leave!
I try to see both sides of the coin but I remain unsure about everything.
One question I always wonder when watching the news regarding immigrants (not the economical migrants, it’s obvious why they wish to come to the UK), but why we are told, as a sympathetic nation with a high standard of human rights we should be more welcoming. As their own country is at war, shouldn’t the young men be right there fighting alongside their countrymen against tyranny? Maybe unfair of me, but if that was England (which it may well come to in the future) I just don’t see the British upping sticks and running off to France and beyond.
Mynx, Stevo's answer is not correct. Ex-pats can vote if they have been living in Europe for less than 15 years.
I am an ex-pat because my husband decided to live in France when our 4 children were small. I really didn't want to, all my friends and family were in England and I love England, but it was go with him or divorce and I loved him. Now my children are married to French people and I have 9 grandchildren in France. My husband died some years ago, but I'm stuck here in a house I can't sell because of French inheritance laws as the children part own it and they don't want to sell. It is a gorgeous house though. But I've since met OH 2 and he moved here because his wife wanted to, she died 3 years later. He managed to sell his French house. We have bought a cottage in Norfolk together, our 2nd home, which we love.
So I can't vote in the referendum, but OH can.
We don't know what would happen if the UK leaves, but we have been told that ex-pats would no longer be in a health service and would need very expensive private health insurance, travelling back to the UK would be more complicated, our pensions may be frozen. A lot of English people here are trying to sell their houses and move back but it can take 3 - 4 years to sell a house in France.
Dordogne and Norfolk. Clay in Dordogne, sandy in Norfolk.
The NHS is one area where I am actually qualified to talk about, rather than just have an opinion on.
I ran a large department, in a hospital, for over 10 years. For most of that time, I had to recruit nurses, and some doctors from Europe. The UK has not produced enough doctors and nurses, over my entire career.
If we leave the EU, that avenue will be closed, and we will not be able to staff the NHS.
There is no desire for any UK government to train adequate numbers of staff. Even if this changed , we would need new medical schools, and it takes at least 15 years to train a consultant from scratch.
The Intensive Care Unit I worked on, had 2 European consultants, out of the 15 of us.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
Pdoc - is it a budget/funding thing that we don't train enough home grown staff ? I have never understood why thousands of bright kids, who aspire to be medics, fail to get accepted on courses because they "only" get a gazillion A*'s, instead of the required gazillion and 1.
Not long ago, the Government Health 'high heid yins' were promising so many thousand new doctors, nurses etc by 2020.
As someone in the medical profession then pointed out, since they don't have that number in training at this point, how were they going to magically have fully trained ones in a few years time....
What's that saying about lies, damned lies and statistics?
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
We live in the UK. My OH works for a Dutch employer but his work base is in the UK.
He could choose to be based in Holland if he wanted to and we could then choose whether to continue to live in the UK or move to the continent. Or have a home in both places.
Some of his colleagues work out of Holland but still live in the UK.
Other colleagues both work and live in Holland but can come back to the UK to live anytime they want to.
Other colleagues live elsewhere on the continent (Germany, France etc) but still have their work base in Holland.
Some employees get paid in sterling - some in Euros - depending on what suits their personal circumstances.
I can't for one moment imagine that we would enjoy this flexibility and choice around his employment if the UK were not in the EU. On the whole it suits both individuals and employer.
Yes, these are very personal arrangements - but how could I contemplate voting for anything which might disrupt them?
Selfish - yes - but, ultimately, most people will vote for what they believe will give them the best return.
Last edited: 21 May 2016 11:51:46
Heaven is ... sitting in the garden with a G&T and a cat while watching the sun go down
Posts
I think most of us are concerned, Verdun. If the EU were to remain the size it is, it would be almost acceptable to me; however, the thought of 80 MILLION Turks joining, sooner or later, is a real concern.
Though there are many EU migrants here now, they are, generally speaking, young and healthy and, apparently, contribute to our economy more than a billion pounds a year, over and above what they cost. It's those from the commonwealth who come here permanently and bring with them their older relatives too, who cost the economy over £15 billion. So, how we vote won't change the latter situation.
Free movement within the EU means, of course, that many Brits can live and work wherever they choose within it. In Spain alone there a million British immigrants working/living very happily and won't be pleased if we vote to leave!
I try to see both sides of the coin but I remain unsure about everything.
One question I always wonder when watching the news regarding immigrants (not the economical migrants, it’s obvious why they wish to come to the UK), but why we are told, as a sympathetic nation with a high standard of human rights we should be more welcoming. As their own country is at war, shouldn’t the young men be right there fighting alongside their countrymen against tyranny? Maybe unfair of me, but if that was England (which it may well come to in the future) I just don’t see the British upping sticks and running off to France and beyond.
Mynx, Stevo's answer is not correct. Ex-pats can vote if they have been living in Europe for less than 15 years.
I am an ex-pat because my husband decided to live in France when our 4 children were small. I really didn't want to, all my friends and family were in England and I love England, but it was go with him or divorce and I loved him. Now my children are married to French people and I have 9 grandchildren in France. My husband died some years ago, but I'm stuck here in a house I can't sell because of French inheritance laws as the children part own it and they don't want to sell. It is a gorgeous house though. But I've since met OH 2 and he moved here because his wife wanted to, she died 3 years later. He managed to sell his French house. We have bought a cottage in Norfolk together, our 2nd home, which we love.
So I can't vote in the referendum, but OH can.
We don't know what would happen if the UK leaves, but we have been told that ex-pats would no longer be in a health service and would need very expensive private health insurance, travelling back to the UK would be more complicated, our pensions may be frozen. A lot of English people here are trying to sell their houses and move back but it can take 3 - 4 years to sell a house in France.
The NHS is one area where I am actually qualified to talk about, rather than just have an opinion on.
I ran a large department, in a hospital, for over 10 years. For most of that time, I had to recruit nurses, and some doctors from Europe. The UK has not produced enough doctors and nurses, over my entire career.
If we leave the EU, that avenue will be closed, and we will not be able to staff the NHS.
There is no desire for any UK government to train adequate numbers of staff. Even if this changed , we would need new medical schools, and it takes at least 15 years to train a consultant from scratch.
The Intensive Care Unit I worked on, had 2 European consultants, out of the 15 of us.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Pdoc - is it a budget/funding thing that we don't train enough home grown staff ? I have never understood why thousands of bright kids, who aspire to be medics, fail to get accepted on courses because they "only" get a gazillion A*'s, instead of the required gazillion and 1.
Chicky, I think it is an attitude problem, of previous governments of all persuasions.
It has always been much cheaper, to employ doctors and nurses from abroad.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Not long ago, the Government Health 'high heid yins' were promising so many thousand new doctors, nurses etc by 2020.
As someone in the medical profession then pointed out, since they don't have that number in training at this point, how were they going to magically have fully trained ones in a few years time....
What's that saying about lies, damned lies and statistics?
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
I wasn't going to join in this debate but ...
We live in the UK. My OH works for a Dutch employer but his work base is in the UK.
He could choose to be based in Holland if he wanted to and we could then choose whether to continue to live in the UK or move to the continent. Or have a home in both places.
Some of his colleagues work out of Holland but still live in the UK.
Other colleagues both work and live in Holland but can come back to the UK to live anytime they want to.
Other colleagues live elsewhere on the continent (Germany, France etc) but still have their work base in Holland.
Some employees get paid in sterling - some in Euros - depending on what suits their personal circumstances.
I can't for one moment imagine that we would enjoy this flexibility and choice around his employment if the UK were not in the EU. On the whole it suits both individuals and employer.
Yes, these are very personal arrangements - but how could I contemplate voting for anything which might disrupt them?
Selfish - yes - but, ultimately, most people will vote for what they believe will give them the best return.
Last edited: 21 May 2016 11:51:46
We're In
I know who I'd like my friends to be