I feel that , from this thread and many others, the simple fact is that the overwhelming majority of cat owners are in total denial about the nuisance their pets cause, be it killing other animal, or damaging gardens by scratching or defecation.
They will never , ever see the other side and will just selfishly plod along with the old " it's in their nature" mantra.
My neigbour has 9 cats, many of which come into our garden. With 8 acres, they're not short of space, but if they come near the bird feeders, they have water thrown at them. They've all learned that's the only bit of the garden they can't visit.
The oversensitive comment was made in reference to you wanting to be spared from seeing the death and destruction caused by kitty. Not about being upset about cats killing wildlife. Unless kitty is a lion ripping off my loved ones limps. I can cope with seeing a sparrow killed by a cat.
I believe I pointed out that cats kill our local population of rabbits. I'm not sure how that makes me naive to the effects cats have on the environment.
The thread was already ridiculous. Gemma declared she had read studies. Thus it was fact. I believe if you declare a scientific study to be fact. You need to allow other people to read them. I was not allowed/ able to read the facts for myself. Thus the point has no validity. I hope Gemma understands that. Because I actually respect her passion and opinion.
I think it was gardeners boy who showed an example of real wildlife gardening. Sadly all to may of the wildlife gardeners I have met think this means a bit of bird seed. Then they happily throw slug pellets around like confetti. I certainly did not say all wildlife gardeners are like this. But I am not prepared to listen to these gardeners complain about cats destroying wildlife. If you are more like gardeners boy I applaud your efforts.
Cats are part of the ecosystem. Perhaps they are nat native. But they have been here for hundreds of years. They are not going anywhere. The ecosystem adapts. This is my opinion. Gemma an ecologist may disagree. We are both allowed our opinions on that. That is the nature of debate.
my wildlife garden contains 4 acres of untouched woodland and a lake which is home to coots, canada geese nest there each year, We've also had shoveller and crested ducks, we have a resident population of mallard and snipe.
The garden also has resident foxes and rabbits which are also left to their own devices.
Why is it cat lovers seem to take this " holier than thou" approach. It does their argument no favours.
"Cats are part of the ecosystem." is fine to say, but what if your cat gets into a garden with a large dog and is killed by it? Can the dog owner just shrug and say " it's in their nature"?
Lunaria I did not refuse to post a link, I simply stated that you would have to pay for access to the full papers. I rather thought the article I posted was more digestible.
Start here, you will find the studies on domestic cat impacts on vermin are referenced:
I know you didn't refuse to post the link. I'm sorry. That was point was miscommunicated. I was simply trying to say that you presented this study as fact. But didn't supply the information to back it up at first. I don't mean to offend you on that point. I do respect your opinion and have read other posts of yours which are always very interesting. I hope we can find a thread in which we are in agreement.
I really don't think anyone is seeing my original point and I really have other things going on in my world. I spent the day at a funeral so maybe I'm not making sense. I don't have the energy to devote to this thread and is it becoming a farce. I won't be reading further responses.
I'm very pleased to see a number of comments from people who are as angry about the impact of cats on wildlife as I am. I am sick to the back teeth of all my good work to benefit wildlife being destroyed in an instant by the local population of cats. Cats are having a massive impact on British wildlife and I agree totally about cat owners defending their pets' right to kill. I have a real problem with a cat owner claiming to be a wildlife lover unless they keep the cat in at all times. Scouring the web, I am aware of a growing tide of discontent about cats killing wildlife and hope that eventually this leads to positive action against irresponsible cat owners. I find it a little ironic that this is being discussed on the website of a magazine that does little to promote wildlife, quite the opposite in fact. It is full of articles about designer gardens as well as adverts fo pesticides, weed killers, killing machines (e.g. strimmers) and the like. My garden is for the benefit of wildlife only not humans and certainly not a playground for children or pets. If you are serious about wildlife (and sadly not many people in the UK are) you need to be totally committed and make sacrifices. Think about the needs of wildlife rather than your own shallow desires.
Posts
I feel that , from this thread and many others, the simple fact is that the overwhelming majority of cat owners are in total denial about the nuisance their pets cause, be it killing other animal, or damaging gardens by scratching or defecation.
They will never , ever see the other side and will just selfishly plod along with the old " it's in their nature" mantra.
My neigbour has 9 cats, many of which come into our garden. With 8 acres, they're not short of space, but if they come near the bird feeders, they have water thrown at them. They've all learned that's the only bit of the garden they can't visit.
The oversensitive comment was made in reference to you wanting to be spared from seeing the death and destruction caused by kitty. Not about being upset about cats killing wildlife. Unless kitty is a lion ripping off my loved ones limps. I can cope with seeing a sparrow killed by a cat.
I believe I pointed out that cats kill our local population of rabbits. I'm not sure how that makes me naive to the effects cats have on the environment.
The thread was already ridiculous. Gemma declared she had read studies. Thus it was fact. I believe if you declare a scientific study to be fact. You need to allow other people to read them. I was not allowed/ able to read the facts for myself. Thus the point has no validity. I hope Gemma understands that. Because I actually respect her passion and opinion.
I think it was gardeners boy who showed an example of real wildlife gardening. Sadly all to may of the wildlife gardeners I have met think this means a bit of bird seed. Then they happily throw slug pellets around like confetti. I certainly did not say all wildlife gardeners are like this. But I am not prepared to listen to these gardeners complain about cats destroying wildlife. If you are more like gardeners boy I applaud your efforts.
Cats are part of the ecosystem. Perhaps they are nat native. But they have been here for hundreds of years. They are not going anywhere. The ecosystem adapts. This is my opinion. Gemma an ecologist may disagree. We are both allowed our opinions on that. That is the nature of debate.
my wildlife garden contains 4 acres of untouched woodland and a lake which is home to coots, canada geese nest there each year, We've also had shoveller and crested ducks, we have a resident population of mallard and snipe.
The garden also has resident foxes and rabbits which are also left to their own devices.
Why is it cat lovers seem to take this " holier than thou" approach. It does their argument no favours.
"Cats are part of the ecosystem." is fine to say, but what if your cat gets into a garden with a large dog and is killed by it? Can the dog owner just shrug and say " it's in their nature"?
Total denial.
Charlie, you need to get off the fence and tell us what you think
Lunaria I did not refuse to post a link, I simply stated that you would have to pay for access to the full papers. I rather thought the article I posted was more digestible.
Start here, you will find the studies on domestic cat impacts on vermin are referenced:
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.html%3FWT.mc_id%3DFBK_NCOMMS?message-global=remove&WT.mc_id=FBK_NCOMMS
Though quite frankly I don't know why you could not have just searched for the papers on the web yourself.
I know you didn't refuse to post the link. I'm sorry. That was point was miscommunicated. I was simply trying to say that you presented this study as fact. But didn't supply the information to back it up at first. I don't mean to offend you on that point. I do respect your opinion and have read other posts of yours which are always very interesting. I hope we can find a thread in which we are in agreement.
I really don't think anyone is seeing my original point and I really have other things going on in my world. I spent the day at a funeral so maybe I'm not making sense. I don't have the energy to devote to this thread and is it becoming a farce. I won't be reading further responses.
Wind up merchant?
CN good one
I like it
I'm very pleased to see a number of comments from people who are as angry about the impact of cats on wildlife as I am. I am sick to the back teeth of all my good work to benefit wildlife being destroyed in an instant by the local population of cats. Cats are having a massive impact on British wildlife and I agree totally about cat owners defending their pets' right to kill. I have a real problem with a cat owner claiming to be a wildlife lover unless they keep the cat in at all times. Scouring the web, I am aware of a growing tide of discontent about cats killing wildlife and hope that eventually this leads to positive action against irresponsible cat owners. I find it a little ironic that this is being discussed on the website of a magazine that does little to promote wildlife, quite the opposite in fact. It is full of articles about designer gardens as well as adverts fo pesticides, weed killers, killing machines (e.g. strimmers) and the like. My garden is for the benefit of wildlife only not humans and certainly not a playground for children or pets. If you are serious about wildlife (and sadly not many people in the UK are) you need to be totally committed and make sacrifices. Think about the needs of wildlife rather than your own shallow desires.
I notice that you have not posted before. It seems you have picked a very contentious thread to start up an old discussion again. I wonder why.