OK, well I can't agree with you that rats should not be controlled. I can't agree that cats control rats. So best leave it there. I've heard some people say that sheep are wildlife, I guess we all live in different worlds.
Yet again you have put words in my mouth. I did not write anywhere that rats should not be controlled. Whether I think this or not. I have not said this. You have only assumed this, based on what I have written.
I have also had an education. I was taught to question studies. Who carries the out?, what were there objections? etc. You may lean on scientific studies in a debate as much as you wish. But you can always find a study that's contradictory.
You stated cats are killing machines. killing morning noon and night. Despite the fact that both of us have had cats bring home dead rats. There is no evidence that cats kill rats. Yes I am stirring the pot here.
I see no point in continuing with this discussion.
The cat that brought home rats was in the 1970s - part of a feral population we allowed into the house. It was a different world back then, I've no idea how old you are but I'm old enough to remember when house sparrows were common and not red listed by the RSPB.
I did not say cats do not kill rats either, I said some have been shown to avoid them and that cats have no impact on rat populations. That does not mean that some cats do not kill some rats. It means that however many they kill, it has no impact on population density. Therefore cats do not effectively control rats. Therefore the concept that cats in someway do a good job when allowed to free roam, is a myth.
I posted the link to an article that goes to some length to discuss the issue. Read if for yourself.
If you have scientific papers that indicate cats do not have impacts on wildlife, please do provide them. I've only provided the facts as I know them and formed my opinion on free roaming cats from current studies. Don't shoot the messenger as they say.
Gemma my last point was really just mischief with you. I think you have missed the point I have been making along. My problem as never with the cats and rats debate. But with people villifying a cat for killing wildlife but they are quick to kill the unwanted wildlife in the gardens themselves. Cats do a good job where I live of killing rats/wild rabbits. Lets forget the rats for a moment. But supposed wildlife gardeners i know are happy to poison/shoot wild rabbits for entering there wildlife gardens. Perhaps I explained it badly. Its not even worth continue the discussion. Its starting to feel like an alice in wonderland conversation.
Until a few years ago we had a large country garden, surrounded by fields and woods we had two cats and a dog.
The garden was full of wild life even deer and rabbits, the garden was totally organic and we control the wild life by using natural barriers, ie the veg garden was surrounded by a thick hawthorn hedge this kept the deer and most of the rabbits out and was great for nesting birds.
Other parts of the garden treated in the same way using plants that reduce the effects of green fly, slugs, snails whatever we never killed anything and once we had a balance it just looked after its self.
As I say this was in the country so the wildlife had lots of room may not be quite so easy in the middle of town but I think with a little thought a lot more could be done.
And the cats well they were to well fed and lazy to be bothered to catch anything.
If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.
Thanks for those links Dove. When I was a child dogs were allowed to roam the streets freely causing real problems for people and traffic. The footpaths were a minefield and so were play areas for childrlen. Although we do still get problems with irresponsible owners refusing to clear up after their animals, generally speaking I think the problems is much better.
Perhaps one day we will look back on today's practice of letting our feline friends run the dangers of the roads and also allowing them to use anywhere they choose as public toilets with the same disbelief and distaste. I'm afraid until the law steps in we wont change people's minds on this.
Most people have small gardens and is there only outdoor space. Whilst nature and gardening need not be mutually exclusive gardens are not nature reserves and neither should we expect them to be. As much as I hate people paving over their gardens, be that with tarmac for cars or decking for the few months it is possible to be be outside in comfort it is their choice for there small piece of outdoors.
Posts
OK, well I can't agree with you that rats should not be controlled. I can't agree that cats control rats. So best leave it there. I've heard some people say that sheep are wildlife, I guess we all live in different worlds.
Yet again you have put words in my mouth. I did not write anywhere that rats should not be controlled. Whether I think this or not. I have not said this. You have only assumed this, based on what I have written.
I have also had an education. I was taught to question studies. Who carries the out?, what were there objections? etc. You may lean on scientific studies in a debate as much as you wish. But you can always find a study that's contradictory.
You stated cats are killing machines. killing morning noon and night. Despite the fact that both of us have had cats bring home dead rats. There is no evidence that cats kill rats. Yes I am stirring the pot here.
I see no point in continuing with this discussion.
Now who put words into who's mouth?
Quote where I stated "cats are killing machines"
The cat that brought home rats was in the 1970s - part of a feral population we allowed into the house. It was a different world back then, I've no idea how old you are but I'm old enough to remember when house sparrows were common and not red listed by the RSPB.
I did not say cats do not kill rats either, I said some have been shown to avoid them and that cats have no impact on rat populations. That does not mean that some cats do not kill some rats. It means that however many they kill, it has no impact on population density. Therefore cats do not effectively control rats. Therefore the concept that cats in someway do a good job when allowed to free roam, is a myth.
I posted the link to an article that goes to some length to discuss the issue. Read if for yourself.
If you have scientific papers that indicate cats do not have impacts on wildlife, please do provide them. I've only provided the facts as I know them and formed my opinion on free roaming cats from current studies. Don't shoot the messenger as they say.
WHEW!!!
PETA is an organisation with whom I find much to disagree - however I find these two links very interesting
http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animal-issues/cruel-practices/outdoor-cats/
http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/outdoor-cats/
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Dove thank you for the links.
It felt like that to me at beginning.
I wish I had just posted the link to the article and left it at that.
Until a few years ago we had a large country garden, surrounded by fields and woods we had two cats and a dog.
The garden was full of wild life even deer and rabbits, the garden was totally organic and we control the wild life by using natural barriers, ie the veg garden was surrounded by a thick hawthorn hedge this kept the deer and most of the rabbits out and was great for nesting birds.
Other parts of the garden treated in the same way using plants that reduce the effects of green fly, slugs, snails whatever we never killed anything and once we had a balance it just looked after its self.
As I say this was in the country so the wildlife had lots of room may not be quite so easy in the middle of town but I think with a little thought a lot more could be done.
And the cats well they were to well fed and lazy to be bothered to catch anything.
Thanks for those links Dove. When I was a child dogs were allowed to roam the streets freely causing real problems for people and traffic. The footpaths were a minefield and so were play areas for childrlen. Although we do still get problems with irresponsible owners refusing to clear up after their animals, generally speaking I think the problems is much better.
Perhaps one day we will look back on today's practice of letting our feline friends run the dangers of the roads and also allowing them to use anywhere they choose as public toilets with the same disbelief and distaste. I'm afraid until the law steps in we wont change people's minds on this.
Most people have small gardens and is there only outdoor space. Whilst nature and gardening need not be mutually exclusive gardens are not nature reserves and neither should we expect them to be. As much as I hate people paving over their gardens, be that with tarmac for cars or decking for the few months it is possible to be be outside in comfort it is their choice for there small piece of outdoors.