I'm aware that cats are predators. If a person's wildlife garden had a large population of "native" species of rat nesting in it. There's a good chance that person would very quickly stop bleating on about the "death and destruction" caused by cats. That is so offensive to them. They would probably want rid of the rats from their garden. When people talk about wildlife gardens generally I have found what they mean are the wildlife they approve of.
I had a cat that would bring rats home. I lived with my mum then, who's terrified of rodents. We were told by the council to put a cover over them. I have no idea what department she rang. But somebody came out once a week to remove them.
1) Brown rats are NOT native wildlife - they were introduced by people to the UK from Asia in the 1720s, they are recognised pest species.
2) I have a wildlife garden. I control the rats in it with a .22 rifle. I do not need my neighbour's cats to do the job for me. They don't in any case, in fact their constant defecating on my property was what I believe attracted rats in the first place.
I approve of all the native wildlife in my garden, from grass snakes, toads, shrews, voles, newts, lizards, bugs, slugs, birds including raptors and corvids, you name it.
I certainly do not appreciate the 5 'pet' cats that took it over when new neighbours moved in. The cats all but destroyed the native lizard colony, stopped me from feeding the birds and made my garden somewhere I did not even want to look at, yet alone be in. No amount of pleading, begging, or reasoning would get these people to control the cats.
The argument is done and dusted. Most people realise already that free roaming cats are to many people unwelcome and nothing but a constant nuisance and annoyance. Keep them at home.
I think Gemma and I will have to agree to disagree. I really don't care if a species is native or not. It is my deeply held religious belief that all life has value. I have no interest in turning this into a religious debate. My point of view is that people get upset with cats killing wildlife. But only the wildlife they believe are worthy of being in their wildlife garden. The unworthy wildlife it's alright for them to shoot, set traps, use poisons on them. To my way of thinking it's hypocrisy.
As for your neighbours that's just ignorance, they really should have taken responsibility. Cats are not pack animals. 5 is too many.
I'm sorry Lunaria, but I do disagree. Rats have to be controlled. I don't take any pleasure in it, though shooting is to me far more humane than baiting or allowing them to have their heads bitten off.
Anyone respecting life would not allow cats to free roam. Doing so is an entirely human act. The human is releasing the animal into the wild where it will only do what it evolved to do. Sadly it evolved to do it in regions with much lower densities of prey items. Hence why allowed to roam in the UK they simply keep on killing and killing.
We also had a cat that brought home rats when I was growing up. However the scientific research shows that cats have absolutely no impact on rural rat populations, none at all. It also shows many cats actively avoid tackling rats. It is just the facts that is all. Hence they are not effective at controlling rats and one must look to other means, however distasteful it may be.
I have explained my point of view. I have never said I think cats should roam free. I have said cat owners should take responsibility. My problem was with the hypocritical attitude of some people. You appear to have taken my stance personally. I apologise if you have taken offence to anything I have said. You seem to need to win this discussion. I said let's agree to disagree but you had to disagree further. I respect your right to a different opinion please respect mine.
Also if you are going to discuss scientific research a link to a study would be useful. Any one can say studies say.
It is nothing personal. You stated rats were native, then said you didn't care if they were or not. It does make it hard to follow.
I actually agree with you that some people are hypocritical about what counts as 'wildlife'. Lots of people don't like grass snakes when in fact attracting them to a wildlife garden probably means one is doing a lot of things right!
I do apologise if my arguments seem strong, but I am a consultant ecologist by training and do read a lot of reports on many impacts on wildlife. I also happen to have a garden I cherish that was destroyed by cats.
I won't bore you with links to scientific papers, though I could, however you will need to pay to read more than the extracts, so not of much help really.
There is however a good article covering the cat/rat debate to be found here. The US, New Zealand and Australia are well ahead of the game on the research and already outlawing free roaming cats, sadly if it ever happens in the UK, like most things concerning wildlife, it will be far too late to do any good:
I gave you an example situation. I used quotes marks around the word native to reflect your interest in all things "native". I never stated rats were native. But no I don't care if a species that has been in Britain for hundreds of years is classified as native or not.
Posts
the rats and mice around here are controlled by foxes and buzzards. I don't need anyone's pets to keep a balance.
I'm aware that cats are predators. If a person's wildlife garden had a large population of "native" species of rat nesting in it. There's a good chance that person would very quickly stop bleating on about the "death and destruction" caused by cats. That is so offensive to them. They would probably want rid of the rats from their garden. When people talk about wildlife gardens generally I have found what they mean are the wildlife they approve of.
I had a cat that would bring rats home. I lived with my mum then, who's terrified of rodents. We were told by the council to put a cover over them. I have no idea what department she rang. But somebody came out once a week to remove them.
Lunaria,
1) Brown rats are NOT native wildlife - they were introduced by people to the UK from Asia in the 1720s, they are recognised pest species.
2) I have a wildlife garden. I control the rats in it with a .22 rifle. I do not need my neighbour's cats to do the job for me. They don't in any case, in fact their constant defecating on my property was what I believe attracted rats in the first place.
I approve of all the native wildlife in my garden, from grass snakes, toads, shrews, voles, newts, lizards, bugs, slugs, birds including raptors and corvids, you name it.
I certainly do not appreciate the 5 'pet' cats that took it over when new neighbours moved in. The cats all but destroyed the native lizard colony, stopped me from feeding the birds and made my garden somewhere I did not even want to look at, yet alone be in. No amount of pleading, begging, or reasoning would get these people to control the cats.
The argument is done and dusted. Most people realise already that free roaming cats are to many people unwelcome and nothing but a constant nuisance and annoyance. Keep them at home.
It all comes down to taking responsibility doesn't it?
Responsibility to control the rats in your garden and the cats in your care
In the sticks near Peterborough
I agree nutcutlet.
I think Gemma and I will have to agree to disagree. I really don't care if a species is native or not. It is my deeply held religious belief that all life has value. I have no interest in turning this into a religious debate. My point of view is that people get upset with cats killing wildlife. But only the wildlife they believe are worthy of being in their wildlife garden. The unworthy wildlife it's alright for them to shoot, set traps, use poisons on them. To my way of thinking it's hypocrisy.
As for your neighbours that's just ignorance, they really should have taken responsibility. Cats are not pack animals. 5 is too many.
I'm sorry Lunaria, but I do disagree. Rats have to be controlled. I don't take any pleasure in it, though shooting is to me far more humane than baiting or allowing them to have their heads bitten off.
Anyone respecting life would not allow cats to free roam. Doing so is an entirely human act. The human is releasing the animal into the wild where it will only do what it evolved to do. Sadly it evolved to do it in regions with much lower densities of prey items. Hence why allowed to roam in the UK they simply keep on killing and killing.
We also had a cat that brought home rats when I was growing up. However the scientific research shows that cats have absolutely no impact on rural rat populations, none at all. It also shows many cats actively avoid tackling rats. It is just the facts that is all. Hence they are not effective at controlling rats and one must look to other means, however distasteful it may be.
I have explained my point of view. I have never said I think cats should roam free. I have said cat owners should take responsibility. My problem was with the hypocritical attitude of some people. You appear to have taken my stance personally. I apologise if you have taken offence to anything I have said. You seem to need to win this discussion. I said let's agree to disagree but you had to disagree further. I respect your right to a different opinion please respect mine.
Also if you are going to discuss scientific research a link to a study would be useful. Any one can say studies say.
You win Gemma.
It is nothing personal. You stated rats were native, then said you didn't care if they were or not. It does make it hard to follow.
I actually agree with you that some people are hypocritical about what counts as 'wildlife'. Lots of people don't like grass snakes when in fact attracting them to a wildlife garden probably means one is doing a lot of things right!
I do apologise if my arguments seem strong, but I am a consultant ecologist by training and do read a lot of reports on many impacts on wildlife. I also happen to have a garden I cherish that was destroyed by cats.
I won't bore you with links to scientific papers, though I could, however you will need to pay to read more than the extracts, so not of much help really.
There is however a good article covering the cat/rat debate to be found here. The US, New Zealand and Australia are well ahead of the game on the research and already outlawing free roaming cats, sadly if it ever happens in the UK, like most things concerning wildlife, it will be far too late to do any good:
http://halo.org.nz/rats-mice/
I gave you an example situation. I used quotes marks around the word native to reflect your interest in all things "native". I never stated rats were native. But no I don't care if a species that has been in Britain for hundreds of years is classified as native or not.