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AMOC Collapse and gardening

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  • I find myself saying this in alot of discussions these days- the notion of eternal growth in business, particularly publicly quoted corporations might be the biggest single root cause of every issue we have, climate change first among them. 
  • KT53KT53 Posts: 9,016


    The point is not really that individual actions can make the difference, directly. They will not. But individual actions can lead to a network effect...
    Should that not be 'The point is not really that the actions of a single individual can make a difference, directly.  They will not. But individual actions can lead to.....'

  • ViewAheadViewAhead Posts: 866
    I find myself saying this in alot of discussions these days- the notion of eternal growth in business, particularly publicly quoted corporations might be the biggest single root cause of every issue we have, climate change first among them. 
    Indeed!  The whole notion of "growing the economy", so beloved by politicians, needs a rethink.  There is no reason to measure GDP and use that as the be all and end all benchmark of success.  All sorts of other things could be measured instead.  Personally, I think the best thing to judge a nation on would be wealth distribution - the gap between richest and poorest and how many fall in each band within that gap.  The aim should be to have the smallest gap with the income spread of the population even across it.  
  • punkdocpunkdoc Posts: 15,039
    Unfortunately that is not human nature. A lot of people want to "get on", do better than their neighbours and couldn't care less about others generally.
    Hopefully that is why the human race will end, and cockroaches will take over.
    How can you lie there and think of England
    When you don't even know who's in the team

    S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
  • ViewAheadViewAhead Posts: 866
    But you would still be able to "get on", just not at the cost of others.  Bezos could have his profits, but not at the expense of his workers.  They would get a fair deal; he would get a good return, not an obscene one.   

    It could work.  The reason it won't happen is it is not in the interests of the 1-2% at the top and the politicians they manipulate. 
  • StultiStulti Posts: 90
    edited 25 February
    To return to the AMOC and possibly also the link I gave above to the CNN weather/climate predictions for the coming weeks, there will be no business to be had.

    When the temperature next week in Nebraska is going to be a sustained 30°F above normal for this time of year and parts of Texas are going to see over 100°F, what will the cattle owners, the Macdonalds and so on have if the grass and the cows shrivel and perish?
  • KT53KT53 Posts: 9,016
    The Soviet Union was created on the basis of a more equal society but look where it ended up.  The theory is great but the Animal Farm mentality soon takes over.  "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"
  • punkdocpunkdoc Posts: 15,039
    Exactly, humans do not want to play fair.
    How can you lie there and think of England
    When you don't even know who's in the team

    S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
  • ViewAheadViewAhead Posts: 866
    There's a huge difference between communism and a fairer capitalist society.  
  • KT53KT53 Posts: 9,016
    ViewAhead said:
    There's a huge difference between communism and a fairer capitalist society.  

    In it's purest sense communism would be the fairest system.  Definition of communism ' "a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs."

    The reality is that somebody has to manage/police any system and that is where greed and self interest comes in.  Gorbachev believed he was bringing in a fairer system but all that actually happened was a group with influence became hugely wealthy and a later President changed the laws to make themself president for life.
    At least with our system, flawed as it is, we can vote one lot out and another lot in.  Although it is questionable as to how much actual difference that will make. We can criticise without expecting to fall down long flights of stairs, out of top story window or suffer 'sudden death syndrome'.
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