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Pronoun conundrum

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  • didywdidyw Posts: 3,573
    I don't need to use their preferred pronouns when speaking directly to them as 'you' works for that!
    Gardening in East Suffolk on dry sandy soil.
  • B3B3 Posts: 27,505
     my edit clashed with your reply. They or them?
    In London. Keen but lazy.
  • PosyPosy Posts: 3,601
    Is that an example or just a statement? It's a horrible mishmash of singulars and plurals and I'm glad that some of our best literature was written before we became so anxious.

    In my view, this issue has nothing to do with gender or personal taste at all. 'They' is a plural. The pronoun should agree with the rest of the sentence so 'they' cannot be 'a person'. That's the beginning and the end of it. No insult intended, no offence taken  no feelings ruffled, it's just the way English is constructed. 
  • didywdidyw Posts: 3,573
    As an ex-English teacher I can see your frustration over this @Posy.  I studied English at uni and can get quite pedantic myself - shouting 'fewer' not 'less' at the telly often.  And it's 'different from' not 'different to' or, heaven forfend, 'different than'.  But my uni also ran a study on English language usage which observed how the language and its usage changes over time.  The Department, apart from the odd pedantic lecturer, prided itself on being descriptive rather than prescriptive.

    You will see that I started two sentences there with conjunctions.  Naughty - but effective.

    Non-binary people have chosen they/them as their preferred pronouns.  How would you ask them to refer to themselves?
    Gardening in East Suffolk on dry sandy soil.
  • BenCottoBenCotto Posts: 4,718
    edited April 2022
    B3, I think didyw’s post uses the terms effortlessly. I did note, however, that they (the pronoun for the young person in question) was always conjugated in the plural whereas the reflexive pronoun was constructed as themself.

    My question at the start of all this, because my world rarely interacts with gender identity ambiguities, was very simple. They (singular) are ... which sounds correct, or they (singular) is ... which seems more respectful to the subject of the sentence? The view seems to be overwhelmingly that they are is the conventional usage.

    I know language changes and, in the context of whatever is being discussed, it will be apparent whether they is singular or plural. It’s the same, in a way, with sheep - singular or plural it is the same but never once in my life have I been confused. And am I right in thinking Japanese does not use plurals?

    didyw, do you also shout at people on the telly who confuse number and amount? I do.
    Rutland, England
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147
    BenCotto said:


    didyw, do you also shout at people on the telly who confuse number and amount? I do.
    I don’t know about @didyw , but I do … especially when they work in the Treasury 😡 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • LoxleyLoxley Posts: 5,698
    Posy said:
    OK. But the confusion is obvious. Are we talking about one or more than one? If you use they when you mean one, it doesn't make sense.
    I don't find it confusing. The word "you" can also be used in a singular or plural sense. It's always "you like" and never "you likes" whether you're addressing a group of people or a single person. Similarly, it's always "they like" whether addressing a group or an individual. I think you have to go out of your way to find this "confusing"...
    "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour". 
  • B3B3 Posts: 27,505
    I didn't go out of my way. It just happened.
    In London. Keen but lazy.
  • LoxleyLoxley Posts: 5,698
    edited April 2022
    I was responding to Posy insisting that it would be confusing to use "they like" when referring to people in a plural or singular sense, a page or two back.

    That said, when I read your comment saying "give me an example of how you would use these pronouns when speaking to they. ( see I'm learning)", I couldn't help but eyeroll pretty hard... Sorry if it was a genuine mistake, I just find it hard to believe
    "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour". 
  • edhelkaedhelka Posts: 2,351
    JennyJ said:
    What do they use for a gender-neutral or non-gender-specific personal pronoun in languages where the plural pronouns are gender-specific as well as the singular ones?
    My native language has gendered plurals. And it has also gendered verbs (in past tense), adjectives, and some numerals. No good options.
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