No, @TheGreenMan, they is incorrect when the gender is unknown. Historically, there is an assumption that the subject is male - as in Dear Sir - if there is doubt. The use of Sir or Madam was considered vulgar. If there is doubt, you say he.
I don't care at all what individuals want to decide about gender but I think introducing confusion in language makes things worse because you lose the thread of the conversation, trying to work out the meaning. 'They'? I thought we were talking about your friend/partner/boss etc. Who are 'they'? I don't understand....
A new word for everyone or for undefined individuals would solve the problem. Isn't there a sci-fi series where a non-gendered species use the word vee? We all got used to Ms. I'm sure we could adapt.
Well that’s archaic. Language is constantly evolving; like mankind is supposed to. Rigidity and shackles aren’t conducive to progress and evolution.
That's what I said - language changes - but it shouldn't become MORE confusing, it should become clearer. And archaic is a bit strong. I'm not talking Chaucer, here, this is a change that is still ongoing.
One of my concerns is that the use of 'they' can be used as a pejorative ... to group folk together because 'they're all the same' ... 'they do this' and 'they all look like that' ... rather than treating people as individuals ... it's been done before ... we've all heard it used when talking about folk with Downs Syndrome ... 'they're all so affectionate' (well 'they're' not ... but that's another story) ... or folk with Afro-Caribbean heritage 'they all have an innate sense of rhythm' (they don't) etc ............ They is the plural of he, she and it ... and I forsee problems ahead if a word for a group is used for individuals.
Look how the word 'gay', initially adopted by many homosexuals as a positive term, became a pejorative to attack people with.
Let's all use one pro-noun ... who I choose to sleep with is of no concern to anyone but the people concerned.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I hadn't thought of that, @Dovefromabove, but it's true. For me, a grammatical mistake like this one is a bit like hearing a wrong note in music. It is so grating and uncomfortable that I cringe! It distracts from all the other notes. It must be all those years of loving English and trying to get kids through their GCSE's!
I get easily confused. Language is about converting abstract ideas into sound to convey those ideas to someone else. It can never be perfect.
Most words can be abusive - but it's not the word that's abusive, but how the word is delivered. A word, even the worst swear word you can think of, means nothing to someone who doesn't know the word already. It is a symbol and all symbols only mean what they are agreed between parties to mean. The delivery of any word can then be abusive or hurtful.
With gender pronouns - what difference does it make unless you're trying to be abusive? If i use he/she to someone who wants to be known as '*', how can I know? Is it abusive or hurtful if I mistakenly use he or she (or ...) but use the words in a pleasant way? Is it wrong to use he/she/other if I use the correct pronoun then in a derogatory way? Did I miss a few decades where she and he were used for gay (?) people to jokingly (derogatory) way? 'Oh, listen to him...'?
What is being addressed here? Abuse of people or just what is grammatically correct? Surely being kind in words and delivery is what it is about, not the specific words used?
What I was saying is that if a word is used by or for a specific group of people it can be used to segregate and then abuse. If that word covers all human beings, no matter what their gender it can't.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I do sometimes get confused / forget but we'll all get used to it. Those working in contexts where this has been the norm for some time are already used to it. My teenagers think absolutely nothing of using someone's preferred pronouns, and (this is the bit I find more tricky) slip easily from one to another to another, and from preferred name to old name and back, often in new combinations of pronoun and name as people change their minds - which happens a LOT in secondary school.
But there is a danger of muddling gender identity / pronouns with sexuality and / or with biological sex, when they're three separate things. I can see that has happened quite a bit here already!
'If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.'
But there is a danger of muddling gender identity / pronouns with sexuality and / or with biological sex, when they're three separate things. I can see that has happened quite a bit here already!
Don't think it's muddling ... it's just not getting involved in categorisation and being proscriptive for no real reason other than to label for labelling's sake.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Posts
Look how the word 'gay', initially adopted by many homosexuals as a positive term, became a pejorative to attack people with.
Let's all use one pro-noun ... who I choose to sleep with is of no concern to anyone but the people concerned.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
For me, a grammatical mistake like this one is a bit like hearing a wrong note in music. It is so grating and uncomfortable that I cringe! It distracts from all the other notes. It must be all those years of loving English and trying to get kids through their GCSE's!
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
But there is a danger of muddling gender identity / pronouns with sexuality and / or with biological sex, when they're three separate things. I can see that has happened quite a bit here already!
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.