As I understand it more than 500 men were murdered last year (that's more than twice as many as women). Compared to 85,000 women who were sexually assaulted (that's x8 as many men). Sheer numbers are why women are so much more afraid - a woman is x170 as likely to be sexually assaulted as a man is to be murdered.
Black men and gay men are hunted by groups of thugs who have gone out looking for a fight. If you're a white hetero man walking home alone, you may be unlucky and run into trouble. It's not hugely likely if you keep away from groups of drunks. Certainly it would be nice to live in a world where you didn't have to think twice about it.
Lone women are hunted by men, alone and in groups. We know this, we know they are actively looking for us. We can keep away from the groups of drunks, just as men can. That doesn't tend to be the problem. The sense of unseen threat is so much more pervasive.
Seriously guys, you have no idea.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
If, and maybe not all women agree with this, it is not all men that are the problem, surely the only way we are going to progress, is through involving more men in finding solutions to the problem.
100% agreed, and I do think on that front things are improving. Men I know are now aware of women's experiences in a way they weren't even 5 years ago, because it is being talked about more. It's why it's so frustrating to see the response from the police leadership is, again, about us preventing being assaulted, rather than listening to the officers within the force saying there are problems.
Do you think it is to do with education? Do you not think that some things are innate? Who actually teaches their kids to be nasty and violent? Schools don't - and kids spend a third of their days there. But society likes power. Power is gained from a variety of sources - money, politics, physical power, intellectual..... All of those have and will be used by those who have the power over those who don't. Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. That is taught. You use the power you have - you develop that power. What needs to be taught - with any power comes responsibility. But that isn't what happens. People abuse power all the time. How many people know someone who was a normal person who got promoted to a position of power and became an ar**?
Take then the person who is sociopathic and give them physical or mental power over someone - how do you educate that out? These people don't understand (and maybe can't understand) the consequence of their actions - maybe that's the wrong way of saying it - maybe they understand, but they just don't care - they don't understand that concept.
I'm not sure that that policemen fitted into that category (ie he was a sociopath in anyway) and obviously he KNEW rules and law and knew absolutely that what he did was wrong before he did it - he also knew that his power meant responsibility - he arrested others for doing 'wrong' - so if he knew that, then education doesn't work in all cases.
As I understand it more than 500 men were murdered last year (that's more than twice as many as women). Compared to 85,000 women who were sexually assaulted (that's x8 as many men). Sheer numbers are why women are so much more afraid - a woman is x170 as likely to be sexually assaulted as a man is to be murdered.
A huge proportion of that 500 will also be in the context of other violent situations, like gang violence and drunken brawls between groups of men. Doesn't make it better, obviously, but it does mean that the actual risk to the average man, as you say, is pretty low.
My point is, I bet that rationalising I just did doesn't make any men feel much safer. If we were to use that rationalisation to shrug our shoulders about violent crime in the way society does about sexual violence, it would cause them to be less safe. The same is true for us when we're told we're less likely to be murdered than a man is.
I'm not sure about how men aren't involved currently, they lead most institutions, maybe the right ones aren't listening or are more concerned about public image. Therfore they cover up things that should be addressed due to more concern about how things appear as opposed to how they actually are. This criticism is not just directed at men or women but all people in position of power and leadership (the head of the Met in particular) acknowledge failures and faults don't hide them, learn from them
It has to be more than education, you're right Steve. It's absolutely about safe family environments too. I may be naive but I don't want to believe anyone is born 'bad', but if a kid is verbally, emotionally or physically abused by the adults in their lives, that is going to leave them with the power issues you talk about. It's a whole society problem so the erosion of the welfare state will only make things worse.
On the Couzens case, it sounds like there were many many missed opportunities to identify him as a predator. He still would have been a predator, but it would have made it much harder to do what he did, and if he'd been in prison for the indecent exposures that were ignored, impossible.
Has man (Shaun) ever learnt over the millennia? Don't we still do the same things in different guises? The one thing that history has taught me is that man doesn't learn from history. And I hate the trite '...we must learn from this...' comment that is always trotted out.
So do we just not bother trying to change anything then? I agree we don't need to learn from this- there's nothing new here we don't know. But we do need action. We'd still be sat round the campfire in our animal skins if we genuinely didn't have the wherewithal to make positive change.
Edited to add, I think you might have been commenting on the article WW posted, and I leapt on your comment. Sorry Steve, it's hard not to feel frustrated at the state of it all at the moment.
Sadly, many of the men in positions of real power, are those to whom this isn't a real problem, or even worse condone the problem, however subliminally.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
Posts
Black men and gay men are hunted by groups of thugs who have gone out looking for a fight. If you're a white hetero man walking home alone, you may be unlucky and run into trouble. It's not hugely likely if you keep away from groups of drunks. Certainly it would be nice to live in a world where you didn't have to think twice about it.
Lone women are hunted by men, alone and in groups. We know this, we know they are actively looking for us. We can keep away from the groups of drunks, just as men can. That doesn't tend to be the problem. The sense of unseen threat is so much more pervasive.
Seriously guys, you have no idea.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Therfore they cover up things that should be addressed due to more concern about how things appear as opposed to how they actually are. This criticism is not just directed at men or women but all people in position of power and leadership (the head of the Met in particular) acknowledge failures and faults don't hide them, learn from them
On the Couzens case, it sounds like there were many many missed opportunities to identify him as a predator. He still would have been a predator, but it would have made it much harder to do what he did, and if he'd been in prison for the indecent exposures that were ignored, impossible.
It would appear this method he used isn't a first for a police officer by the sounds of the above article
Edited to add, I think you might have been commenting on the article WW posted, and I leapt on your comment. Sorry Steve, it's hard not to feel frustrated at the state of it all at the moment.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border