Also, if people choose not to take a free vaccination from the NHS to protect them from an illness, I really can't see why they can logically expect to receive free treatment should they contract that illness. Maybe the freedom to choose ,for no valid medical reason, not to accept the vaccine should be conditional upon taking out an insurance policy to pay for their own medical treatment and that of anyone they infect. That might concentrate a few minds 😉
It's a bigger issue than that Dove. We had our hair cut yesterday by our mobile hairdresser. She said she has one customer who has told her she will not have the jab "because it changes your DNA", not because there is any medical reason not to. She is a long standing customer but our hairdresser doesn't feel this person can continue as a customer when she is potentially putting other customers at risk.
Yes @stevetu ... but my point is that they are not being ‘discriminated against’; they are making a choice which has consequences, as are you if you drive illegally. An airline should be able to refuse to allow people who have chosen not to be vaccinated on board, or a publican choose not to allow them into a pub. The publican should be able to set the parameters within which he or she will provide a service. They should not be forced to place their staff and customers at risk because of a vaccine refuser’s allegation of discrimination.
As has been stated on another thread, nurses have to have various tests and vaccinations as a condition of their employment in the NHS ... they cannot choose not to do this and remain in post. I had to fulfil various criteria regarding my personal behaviour and associations in order to be deemed suitable to do my last job. This was not discrimination ... this was about choice.
I believe that John Stuart Mill's principle of 'least harm' applies here ... "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others." (my italics)
This principle is contained in the French 'Declaration of the Rights of Man' and the Citizen'
"... Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law..."
It will be interesting to see what France decides to do should there be a significant number of people with no contraindications who refuse vaccination.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
@Dovefromabove you said in another post that you know a few people who cannot have the vaccine? Surely they will be unable to resume normal life if the “passport “ idea goes ahead? I personally don’t care wether others have it, I have had it and therefore feel safe. I am not going to get Covid. I happily mix at work with many people who have not had the vaccine. If they get covid and die it’s their lookout exactly like a heavy smoker who gets lung cancer or an addict who dies from an overdose. We all have to make our choices and I have done what I can to keep myself safe. I feel that making it compulsory will impact on those who can’t have it and I imagine fake passports will be pretty easy to get hold of if they do come in.
If the passport goes ahead at least people who cannot have the vaccine for health reasons can make informed choices about how to stay safe .. they will be able to go on planes, trains and buses knowing that no one who has not had the vaccine is near them. They will be able to go to restaurants, theatres and cinemas too. Otherwise in order to stay as safe as possible they'll have to behave as if Lockdown is never ending.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
When they were first testing these vaccines they said that if 70% of population had the jab, the virus would just go away in a relatively short time as it would break the host chain, is that not true now? of course, another will come again in a year or two but we will be prepared for that now.
Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor.
The vaccine does not mean that you won't get covid. Neither does it mean that you wouldn't be able to spread it to some else. You are just decreasing the chances of dying or killing someone else. That has to be a good thing even if it's not the perfect solution.
The legality of the action isn't the point. The issue is in choice.
What's then the difference between any jab Dove? MMR - mandatory? Flu - mandatory?
What is the level of infectiousness that triggers a mandatory vaccination? Who decides (no pun intended)?
The jabs aren't currently mandatory. Either make them mandatory or leave them optional, but don't say they're optional then force people into having them by backdoor means. I HAD to have certain jabs to go to certain countries. Fine - mandatory. Not 'oh, you can come our country, but passport control may refuse to let you in'. That's just wrong.
Gently open a tissue box or something similarly boring and remove the contents. Insert your chocolate, close the box and hide it in plain sight If she's not keen on a particular foodstuff, that's another container that would be good to go . @wild edges
Kid number 2 loses half his body weight in bogies every day. She'd find a tissue box stash in no time. She's only found the decoy stash anyway
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
Posts
It's a bigger issue than that Dove. We had our hair cut yesterday by our mobile hairdresser. She said she has one customer who has told her she will not have the jab "because it changes your DNA", not because there is any medical reason not to. She is a long standing customer but our hairdresser doesn't feel this person can continue as a customer when she is potentially putting other customers at risk.
As has been stated on another thread, nurses have to have various tests and vaccinations as a condition of their employment in the NHS ... they cannot choose not to do this and remain in post. I had to fulfil various criteria regarding my personal behaviour and associations in order to be deemed suitable to do my last job. This was not discrimination ... this was about choice.
I believe that John Stuart Mill's principle of 'least harm' applies here ... "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others." (my italics)
This principle is contained in the French 'Declaration of the Rights of Man' and the Citizen'
"... Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law..."
It will be interesting to see what France decides to do should there be a significant number of people with no contraindications who refuse vaccination.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
of course, another will come again in a year or two but we will be prepared for that now.
Because if you don,t, you are increasing the risk to others.
I want to go on holiday, but I can,t afford the COVID test, why should I pay for it?
Well sorry, but that is part of the cost of holidays.
Personally I really want to go back to Botswana, but I can,t get insurance, sadly that,s just life.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border