Capitalist markets also drive prices down and make things more affordable, which is a good thing for those who are on tight budgets. It's the least worst form of market.
The purpose of this petition is of course to try and impact government approach during trade negotiations. I'm sure it will be delivered with fanfare to Downing St, and followed up with a media campaign.
Which magazine promote themselves as a consumer champion, the cynic in me suggests that this would be a great way to reach a wider audience and gain further subscribers. If it's not, why wouldn't they use the official government petition system that would result in a debate? Possibly because only individuals can open petitions, and companies such as Which cannot gain exposure through that route.
@herbaceous I don't think I implied that at all, I've said acid washed beef several times and the EU legal article I linked and referenced explicitly says it's for beef. But apologies for any confusion caused
Anyway yes we could debate this for days, I think I've made my point so I'll leave it there.
Fair enough @strelitzia32 and my apologies if I misread your reference
You just pushed the 'consumer society' button in my brain and it is a while (what with lockdown and everything) since I have enjoyed a good debate. I was just getting in my stride, about to launch into how a capitalist market drives prices down
Have a pleasant evening.
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." Sir Terry Pratchett
I remember Thatcher telling us who competition from privitisation would bring down prices. Since then the price of water his risen exponentially and there's no competition available to the domestic consumer.
I personally won't buy hormone-fed beef, but I support other people's right to choose it for themselves.
The issue is the lowering of standards in the mass market. Of course the well heeled and well informed will often choose to go with higher quality produce. It's not even clear that the savings made in using hormone or antibiotic treated meat would be fully passed on to consumers, and the health risks to the general population would affect us all, even if we try and shield ourselves personally. For example, antibiotic resistant bacteria.
To my understanding the issue with chlorinated chicken thing isn't about the chlorination itself, it's about the process being used as a sticking plaster remediate the effects of questionable farming practices.
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour".
To my understanding the issue with chlorinated chicken thing isn't about the chlorination itself, it's about the process being used as a sticking plaster remediate the effects of questionable farming practices.
I believe that is correct. In the UK some fruit and veg is chlorine washed and of course our tap water is also chlorinated. In itself chlorination is not considered a risk to health it is just when it is used to cover bad farming practices that it comes under scrutiny.
“Every day is ordinary, until it isn't.” - Bernard Cornwell-Death of Kings
"Capitalist markets also drive prices down and make things more
affordable, which is a good thing for those who are on tight budgets."
It's a disaster because the real costs are just shoved somewhere else in time or space. Future generations will pay or people working in shanties somewhere far away. We overdraw our account on the earth and just keep withdrawing more and more that we can never repay getting further and further from a balanced account. We take the forests, the minerals, fuel, fish, use up the soil and take it from elsewhere and postpone the payment, because somehow they think it doesn't matter if we all keep pretending. 'The kids will figure out a way out of it'. Max out your credit, spend like there is no tomorrow, down the champagne and sod the future. Screw the party poopers who ask about the debt and the sixth mass extinction.
"Driving down prices" essentially means driving down wages. It's sales based on lying, cheating, stealing and swindling people in the "markets". The US has even less regulation about this than the UK. we need more regulation, labeling, transparency and ethics. Not less.
Why would you want to sell the UK or the NHS to the US? It's an important question, not to be brushed away. It's funny how the labelling of "project fear" comes anytime anything genuinely disasterous looms into view like Covid or Brexit or Trump. There's strong evidence that all are catastrophic. We will not leave it to the "ghost in the machine" to regulate markets. It's magical thinking and complete nonsense.
I'm not sure I agree @Hostafan1 choose not to sign or support, definitely. But always comment, question, debate to further understand the issues. If @strelitzia32 has concerns about the motives or provenance of the petition then it is absolutely right to challenge the idea as that opens the way to better understanding.
@Dovefromabove countered the conspiracy theory with an EU consumer document and so the debate goes on. Debate broadens horizons, expands knowledge and may change minds
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." Sir Terry Pratchett
Posts
The purpose of this petition is of course to try and impact government approach during trade negotiations. I'm sure it will be delivered with fanfare to Downing St, and followed up with a media campaign.
Which magazine promote themselves as a consumer champion, the cynic in me suggests that this would be a great way to reach a wider audience and gain further subscribers. If it's not, why wouldn't they use the official government petition system that would result in a debate? Possibly because only individuals can open petitions, and companies such as Which cannot gain exposure through that route.
@herbaceous I don't think I implied that at all, I've said acid washed beef several times and the EU legal article I linked and referenced explicitly says it's for beef. But apologies for any confusion caused
Anyway yes we could debate this for days, I think I've made my point so I'll leave it there.
You just pushed the 'consumer society' button in my brain and it is a while (what with lockdown and everything) since I have enjoyed a good debate. I was just getting in my stride, about to launch into how a capitalist market drives prices down
Have a pleasant evening.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
The issue is the lowering of standards in the mass market. Of course the well heeled and well informed will often choose to go with higher quality produce. It's not even clear that the savings made in using hormone or antibiotic treated meat would be fully passed on to consumers, and the health risks to the general population would affect us all, even if we try and shield ourselves personally. For example, antibiotic resistant bacteria.
To my understanding the issue with chlorinated chicken thing isn't about the chlorination itself, it's about the process being used as a sticking plaster remediate the effects of questionable farming practices.
In the UK some fruit and veg is chlorine washed and of course our tap water is also chlorinated.
In itself chlorination is not considered a risk to health it is just when it is used to cover bad farming practices that it comes under scrutiny.
Our welfare standards may be better than the US, but that's not saying much, there's still an awful lot of suffering in UK animal agriculture.
@Dovefromabove countered the conspiracy theory with an EU consumer document and so the debate goes on. Debate broadens horizons, expands knowledge and may change minds