Is a mandatory Covid jab for NHS/care workers 'right'? It seemed sensible to me, but should any jab be mandatory? If we have 17,000 flu deaths per year, should then all NHS staff also be vaccinated against flu?
I must admit I'm caught in the horns of a dilemma here. It seems (to me) that everyone should have all vaccines. But we do allow people to choose in a 'free' society and not all people think as I do (good eh?) - so when does it become 'right' to force people into an action?
Patients should have a choice too, as should the residents in care homes. They should have the choice to be treated and cared for by people who have taken the scientifically proven and medically advised steps to protect those they care for and work with.
No one is forcing anyone to have a Covid jab. However if they choose a certain course of action ie to work for the NHS or in a care Home, then there are requirements. Just as if they travel to certain parts of the world they are required to have certain jabs, some of which have far worse side effects than the Covid ones do.
They have the freedom to choose, but with freedom comes responsibility.
I did frontline social work with medically vulnerable children. Every year I had a flu jab as did my colleagues, paid for by our employer. If we were not vaccinated we were unable to do our job. If I wanted to do the job I had to meet the requirements. My choice.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
As a front line NHS worker I had to ensure I was Hepatitis B immunised, I don't see this as any different. Not having the vaccine puts other staff and patients at risk.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
I'm a bit lost by your '...No one is forcing anyone to have a Covid jab...'. What is your definition of forced? Because you seem to discount coercion. No one has stated (as far as I'm aware) yet what will happen to staff who continue to not 'want' to have the jab. If (IF) it results in job loss, isn't that forcing?
Flu has killed older age groups (in general - but not always) for ... well, since flu...So should flu jabs be mandatory in care homes...NHS. Isn't the same responsibility in play?
No one is forced to do anything …. no one is forced to pass a driving test before driving a car … but to drive a car without having done so is against the law and if you do it you have to accept the consequences.
Some people think they should have the choice to smoke in a restaurant. Other people want the freedom to sit in a restaurant without breathing toxic smoke …. so rules/laws are made.
It’s all part of living in a society.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
The nurses/carers had qualified to do a job. They have been working in that position. The rules are then being changed.
Other people also come in contact with other people. What about Typhoon [sic] Mary - didn't she run guest houses or some such? What about that man who refuses the jab, won't wear a mask and commutes on a crowded train for 'n' hours a day? He can be totally irresponsible - but keeps his job? What about a school teacher? What about a bus driver? What about a guest house landlord? A waitress? Don't they have responsibility?
Just Google flu and deaths in care - and see what you get. Those two are just straight from the top.So , should flu vaccines also be mandatory?
Personally, I think all people should want to have the jabs, BUT, I do follow that we're not all the same and have our own reasons for being vaccinated or not.
It's funny how we are ready to vaccinate our children for the required entry into school life, but we can't seem to get our head around vaccinating ourselves to protect ourselves and others.
Rules and requirements for jobs change … mine did … I took the new training and was supported in doing so by my employer …. I fulfilled the new criteria and followed the new rules. . My choice. If I’d not wanted to do it I could’ve looked for another job.
One person’s freedom might impact negatively on another person. As I said, with freedom comes responsibility …it’s part of living in a society … you want the benefits? Then you pay the toll.
Some folk might not want to pay income tax …. they might prefer to pay for what they use as they use it …. but that’s not the way our society works. If you don’t want to take part you accept the consequences or go and join another society that gives you the freedoms you want without responsibility to others …. if you can find one.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Bus drivers, waiting staff, teachers etc are not in daily contact with people whose health is vulnerable. Doctors, nurses and care home workers are.
If I was in hospital I would not want to be treated by somebody who is not vaccinated. Firstly they are a risk to me, an unnecessary risk. Secondly the evidence regarding the efficacy of the vaccinations is overwhelming. If these staff are refusing to believe this evidence then I would have severe doubts about their capacity to evaluate risk and to make clinical decisions that influence my health.
Times change. In the past a female teacher, on getting married, had to resign. Seat belts were optional. Anybody who believed they were competent to do so could make gas repairs. Another change has been the arrival of this awful disease. Thankfully we have a protection and if medical and care home staff are content to be potential vectors they should leave their jobs. If that means sacking them I would have no sympathy.
'
Rules and requirements for jobs change … mine did … I took the new
training and was supported in doing so by my employer ….?I fulfilled the
new criteria. My choice. If I’d not wanted to do it I could’ve looked
for another job. '.
But why only NHS/care workers? Why not waitresses, bus drivers, commuters who travel on crowded public transport? What about politicians who hold surgeries - or who sit in a crowded workplace? Why is one sector seen as a problem, but others not? I could work in a crowded office, spread whatever illness to whoever - who in the six degrees of separation (that all infectious diseases are) end up infecting someone who is vulnerable. My example of Typhoon Mary was to show how someone in an apparently innocuous role caused havoc.
30,000 cases a day, and yesterday 200+ deaths. When was the last time the gov held daily covid briefings - and why is the general feel that the problem is over?
Maybe I'm a cynic - but I see the health service and care not very well protected during the peak. And now there's a big show of protecting through care and NHS, when the virus is left to run rampant in society. There's something here that just doesn't sit right with me. Isn't this deflection? It seems to be ....'...go out and party - you don't need a vaccine although it would be nice if you did get one...you don't need a mask, or to social distance or to....' on one hand, then forced vaccines on the other.
Why not mandatory flu jabs? Pneumonia jabs? What is the difference in this? You seem to totally ignore that. If it's about responsibility, why no mandatory flu vaccines in NHS and care? And given that flu vaccines have been around since... why was that never mandatory? What about pneumonia? Should all vaccines for infectious diseases be mandatory in care/NHS workers and optional for everyone else? But why optional for everyone else - we ALL have responsibility in society don't we? But as you point out that responsibility is optional.
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Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Not having the vaccine puts other staff and patients at risk.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
If I was in hospital I would not want to be treated by somebody who is not vaccinated. Firstly they are a risk to me, an unnecessary risk. Secondly the evidence regarding the efficacy of the vaccinations is overwhelming. If these staff are refusing to believe this evidence then I would have severe doubts about their capacity to evaluate risk and to make clinical decisions that influence my health.
Times change. In the past a female teacher, on getting married, had to resign. Seat belts were optional. Anybody who believed they were competent to do so could make gas repairs. Another change has been the arrival of this awful disease. Thankfully we have a protection and if medical and care home staff are content to be potential vectors they should leave their jobs. If that means sacking them I would have no sympathy.