@Anna33 there are good and bad in all age groups but I think younger people have suffered more from lockdown. All 3 of my sons lost their jobs, one lost his home, my daughter has had to postpone her wedding, youngest daughter struggled with pregnancy and a new baby with little medical support. My niece is suffering with extreme depression and bulimia caused by social isolation and they are probably the lucky ones! Young people will be paying for this for years and the damage to the environment is incalculable.
Many older people have also suffered terribly but at least have not been demonised for behaving normally. In my experience young people are very unselfish.
None of the ill effects of Covid/lockdown have been confined to younger people, people of all ages have suffered since the start of last year.
I will always stick up for any group of people who are being stereotyped and generalised about.
My experience has been that I had covid in November when the uk variant hit our area. I was very tired. Lost sense of taste and smell. No respiratory. I had the Moderna vaccine 90 days later. I was sick with both jabs but not nearly as sick as with the covid. Yes the vaccine does make you you sick but not nearly as sick as covid. My kids had the jab and none of them had side effects.
I've been very cheered by the responses sticking up for younger people, as I just get exasperated by the opinions that they've all ignored the rules/been fully responsible for spreading it/deserve to suffer etc etc. @debs64, @FlyDragon, @Allotment Boy, @fidgetbones thank you especially for your comments. I must admit, I read g.king's comment and got incredibly angry, but decided against engaging with them as it's such an ignorant thing to say, and is just a lazy way of thinking I've seen repeated elsewhere.
@g.king I hope you are able to listen to other viewpoints and realise that perhaps young people are not the covid demons you think they are. Wishing for one generation to suffer vilely because of a very limited image that has been presented by media outlets is a really ugly way of thinking.
Anna, I'm sorry that my post offended you so much. The point that I was making is from my own personal experiences and observations when I am out and about.
I mentioned my recent experience where I witnessed 6 individuals that looked in the age bracket of 20's - 30's being completely ignorant of the rules around face masks. And what makes it worse is that Aldi staff didn't challenge them. Similar thing at my local gym where there are measures and rules in place to reduce risk, yet you still see members ignoring the rules - again, same age bracket. Staff would simply turn a blind eye unless you go and complain to them.
Maybe it's a completely different picture where you live, but from what I have heard and seen, my experience is not unique. It really does seem that more of the 20-30's (not all!) do not take this whole thing seriously or have conspiracy theories. Of course, they aren't happy about having to live through lockdown and still unable to do certain things, but they are not willing to follow the rules & guidelines and are anti-vaccination.
I have a invested interest in this as I have been affected by the vaccine to the point where I am only able to work reduced hours and arranged things can be a pain as I am almost constantly tired. This is something that only started after the 1st jab - back in March, yet my GP and hospital consultant are denying that the vaccine had anything to do with it. In fact, they have suggested another cause - sleep apnea and I am waiting to be tested for that next week and will not have results until end of July!
If it is found to be sleep apnea, then great - at least we can start doing something about it. BUT the point is that I did not have the problem (constant fatigue) prior to the jab. If they find that it is NOT sleep apnea, then we're back to square one and probably another wait for several months for the next test.
Could it be that medical professionals are in denial of the longer term side effects so as not deter others having the vaccine. Is it because there is not enough data (probably), but that is no excuse to deny that the vaccine had nothing to do with my situation!.
I am so glad that I didn't bring race / culture into the discussion - now that would have got nasty vey quickly!
As you can see, I am EXTREMELY passionate about the whole situation and always welcome grown up debate. You, on the other hand express your dislike to my previous post, citing ignorance on my side and admitted yourself that you do not want to engage. Is that your usual approach to debate? If someone has differing experiences [not opinions] that don't match your stance on a subject, then you effectively demonise them and accuse them of ignorant, lazy and having an ugly way of thinking?
I must admit that I have been considering lodging a formal complaint with the owners / admins of this forum [as the first step of action] regarding your post and the way it slanders me?
Well, my post is based on my personal experiences and NOT what you read online, in the media or from talking to the crazy guy who sits on the park bench feeding the imaginary pigeons.
Maybe we need more or the younger generations (20's - 30's) to catch COVID and suffer ill effects. Maybe that way, more people will take the whole situation more seriously, that this shit is for REAL and it's not just the older and and people with existing underlying issues that can be affected.
Probably a very controversial take on the situation, but it sickens me to see how many people in that age bracket have behaved over the past year or so - as if there isn't a global pandemic and the selfish case of "I'm alright, Jack"
Last night I was shopping in Aldi and was annoyed to see the number of people not bothering with face masks, let alone cleaning trollies & hands on entry. I hasten to add that the majority were of the appearance of the less than desirable members of the public!
It's all good and well having repeated tannoy announcements asking everyone to respect the rules, but what's the point if the establishments aren't enforcing them? I'm sure that we've all seen this lack of action at supermarkets, shops, gyms, etc.
What you're doing here is taking anecdotal evidence from some limited personal experience, which you're generalising to both demonise and (literally) wish ill to a whole group of people in society.
It's problematic from a factual point of view because we are all more likely to notice things which have a higher emotional charge for us - in this case your fears about younger people spreading a dangerous virus. This then skews our information processing.
...or in my case, my attention is drawn (skewed) to forum posts which look to me as though they are demonising particular groups...
I don't know what you mean by your reference about less than desirable members... It makes me uncomfortable, because it is unclear, and suggests that some people are less desirable than others.
I do appreciate your courage in speaking your mind about this, and hope that this conversation can lead to some understanding about all the different fears at play, for example; my fear that people with less power and status will be demonised, blamed and treated badly, your fear that people's behaviour will lead to higher infection rates...
I've been very cheered by the responses sticking up for younger people, as I just get exasperated by the opinions that they've all ignored the rules/been fully responsible for spreading it/deserve to suffer etc etc. @debs64, @FlyDragon, @Allotment Boy, @fidgetbones thank you especially for your comments. I must admit, I read g.king's comment and got incredibly angry, but decided against engaging with them as it's such an ignorant thing to say, and is just a lazy way of thinking I've seen repeated elsewhere.
@g.king I hope you are able to listen to other viewpoints and realise that perhaps young people are not the covid demons you think they are. Wishing for one generation to suffer vilely because of a very limited image that has been presented by media outlets is a really ugly way of thinking.
Anna, I'm sorry that my post offended you so much. The point that I was making is from my own personal experiences and observations when I am out and about.
I mentioned my recent experience where I witnessed 6 individuals that looked in the age bracket of 20's - 30's being completely ignorant of the rules around face masks. And what makes it worse is that Aldi staff didn't challenge them. Similar thing at my local gym where there are measures and rules in place to reduce risk, yet you still see members ignoring the rules - again, same age bracket. Staff would simply turn a blind eye unless you go and complain to them.
Maybe it's a completely different picture where you live, but from what I have heard and seen, my experience is not unique. It really does seem that more of the 20-30's (not all!) do not take this whole thing seriously or have conspiracy theories. Of course, they aren't happy about having to live through lockdown and still unable to do certain things, but they are not willing to follow the rules & guidelines and are anti-vaccination.
I have a invested interest in this as I have been affected by the vaccine to the point where I am only able to work reduced hours and arranged things can be a pain as I am almost constantly tired. This is something that only started after the 1st jab - back in March, yet my GP and hospital consultant are denying that the vaccine had anything to do with it. In fact, they have suggested another cause - sleep apnea and I am waiting to be tested for that next week and will not have results until end of July!
If it is found to be sleep apnea, then great - at least we can start doing something about it. BUT the point is that I did not have the problem (constant fatigue) prior to the jab. If they find that it is NOT sleep apnea, then we're back to square one and probably another wait for several months for the next test.
Could it be that medical professionals are in denial of the longer term side effects so as not deter others having the vaccine. Is it because there is not enough data (probably), but that is no excuse to deny that the vaccine had nothing to do with my situation!.
I am so glad that I didn't bring race / culture into the discussion - now that would have got nasty vey quickly!
As you can see, I am EXTREMELY passionate about the whole situation and always welcome grown up debate. You, on the other hand express your dislike to my previous post, citing ignorance on my side and admitted yourself that you do not want to engage. Is that your usual approach to debate? If someone has differing experiences [not opinions] that don't match your stance on a subject, then you effectively demonise them and accuse them of ignorant, lazy and having an ugly way of thinking?
I must admit that I have been considering lodging a formal complaint with the owners / admins of this forum [as the first step of action] regarding your post and the way it slanders me?
Well, my post is based on my personal experiences and NOT what you read online, in the media or from talking to the crazy guy who sits on the park bench feeding the imaginary pigeons.
I'm so sorry to hear of your medical experience - clearly horrid to suffer from, and so frustrating not to have the diagnosis you need.
Of course, referring to not bringing race and culture into the discussion does effectively, (if a little unclearly) bring these issues into the discussion.
Given that race is itself an artificially created construct, created and perpetuated by those of us with more inherited power and privilege... a genuinely heartful inquiry into the mechanics of exactly how racism, both historical and current, leads to both higher rates of infection, and to lower levels of trust in medical systems in people who don't benefit from white privilege ...would be a useful project with benefits for many....
Nowhere have I said that I wish all 20-30's ill health. My point being that COVID is seen to affect the older generation more than the younger. Therefore, in my experience, it is members of the younger generation that ignoring the rules, more hesitant to get the vaccine [see ONS study].
If you're a mid-20 something and one of your mates gets seriously ill or God forbid dies from COVID, then you're going to accept that, as I said before, this shit is for real. It is the responsibility of each and every one of us to do our bit. The thing is, to date, the vast majority of sufferers are the older generations.
When I referred to "less than desirable members..." I was referring to a group of 20 somethings that I saw sitting outside drinking cans of Stella, smoking, girl with great big love bite on her neck, general look of "not very nice people", likely trouble makers....you get the idea. Whilst my description may make you uncomfortable, I very much doubt that you'd be happy to invite them into your home!
@g.king I apologise if you feel you have been slandered, that was not the intention. I have heard similar views to yours from several people (sadly, my own father included) with very little fact on which to base their opinions other than what they have read, or seen once in a shop, and it really hit a nerve. I will, however, stand by what I said about wishing a generation of people serious illness being an ugly way of thinking.
From my own point of view and experience, all of my friends in their thirties have rigidly stuck to the rules, have worn masks at every opportunity, have stuck to lockdown even if living on their own, have only met outside when allowed, etc etc. In shops near me I see people from young teenagers to twenties and thirties all masked up, sticking to correct distancing. Likewise in the pubs (obviously not the young teenagers...!) and cafes.
And in relation to people in their twenties being anti-vaccination, didn't the NHS website crash due to take up of vaccinations when they were released to people in their mid twenties??
I'm not for a moment going to claim that all "young" folk are perfectly behaved all of the time - that is unrealistic - but the point I am making is that I see rule breaking evenly spread between all age groups, both young and old. This includes no mask wearing, masks under noses, the classic chin masks (why???), standing far too close to me in a shop, not bothering to sanitise hands/trolleys/baskets and so on. The worst one I saw was a man in his fifties just a few days ago stood in the middle of Morrisons, mask round his chin to have a long mobile phone conversation, leaning all over all the counters/displays in the shop whilst chatting. It was in the fruit and veg aisle. Ick.
I do agree with you that if people aren't wearing masks properly they should definitely be prompted by shop/gym staff/business owners to adjust them. It's probably not so pleasant in reality, but I still believe there needs to be accountability.
It's a very emotive topic, which is why we both feel strongly about our own opinions. I am happy to engage, but I do not want to see harm being wished upon others.
Nowhere have I said that I wish all 20-30's ill health. My point being that COVID is seen to affect the older generation more than the younger. Therefore, in my experience, it is members of the younger generation that ignoring the rules, more hesitant to get the vaccine [see ONS study].
You should have seen the older members in the pool at my gym when it first re-opened, open defiance of the rules. One said very aggressively when asked to swim in a clockwise direction rather than straight up and down the lane "I've been coming here for 30 years and I've never been expected to do it before so I won't do it now".
Just yesterday I was walking through the hotel (which also has a golf club) to the pool and a chap in his sixties or thereabouts refused to wear a mask when prompted by staff and instead just lifted a paper tissue vaguely over his mouth which he then took down as soon as he was round the corner and out of sight of reception.
Of course though, it would be crazy of me to assume that based on those spoiled and selfish older people that all people in their seventies and eighties are also spoiled and selfish and ignoring the Covid guidance/rules, wouldn't it?
Posts
I will always stick up for any group of people who are being stereotyped and generalised about.
I mentioned my recent experience where I witnessed 6 individuals that looked in the age bracket of 20's - 30's being completely ignorant of the rules around face masks. And what makes it worse is that Aldi staff didn't challenge them. Similar thing at my local gym where there are measures and rules in place to reduce risk, yet you still see members ignoring the rules - again, same age bracket. Staff would simply turn a blind eye unless you go and complain to them.
Maybe it's a completely different picture where you live, but from what I have heard and seen, my experience is not unique. It really does seem that more of the 20-30's (not all!) do not take this whole thing seriously or have conspiracy theories. Of course, they aren't happy about having to live through lockdown and still unable to do certain things, but they are not willing to follow the rules & guidelines and are anti-vaccination.
I have a invested interest in this as I have been affected by the vaccine to the point where I am only able to work reduced hours and arranged things can be a pain as I am almost constantly tired. This is something that only started after the 1st jab - back in March, yet my GP and hospital consultant are denying that the vaccine had anything to do with it. In fact, they have suggested another cause - sleep apnea and I am waiting to be tested for that next week and will not have results until end of July!
If it is found to be sleep apnea, then great - at least we can start doing something about it. BUT the point is that I did not have the problem (constant fatigue) prior to the jab. If they find that it is NOT sleep apnea, then we're back to square one and probably another wait for several months for the next test.
Could it be that medical professionals are in denial of the longer term side effects so as not deter others having the vaccine. Is it because there is not enough data (probably), but that is no excuse to deny that the vaccine had nothing to do with my situation!.
I am so glad that I didn't bring race / culture into the discussion - now that would have got nasty vey quickly!
As you can see, I am EXTREMELY passionate about the whole situation and always welcome grown up debate. You, on the other hand express your dislike to my previous post, citing ignorance on my side and admitted yourself that you do not want to engage. Is that your usual approach to debate? If someone has differing experiences [not opinions] that don't match your stance on a subject, then you effectively demonise them and accuse them of ignorant, lazy and having an ugly way of thinking?
I must admit that I have been considering lodging a formal complaint with the owners / admins of this forum [as the first step of action] regarding your post and the way it slanders me?
Well, my post is based on my personal experiences and NOT what you read online, in the media or from talking to the crazy guy who sits on the park bench feeding the imaginary pigeons.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/bulletins/coronavirusandvaccinehesitancygreatbritain/28aprilto23may2021
If you're a mid-20 something and one of your mates gets seriously ill or God forbid dies from COVID, then you're going to accept that, as I said before, this shit is for real. It is the responsibility of each and every one of us to do our bit. The thing is, to date, the vast majority of sufferers are the older generations.
When I referred to "less than desirable members..." I was referring to a group of 20 somethings that I saw sitting outside drinking cans of Stella, smoking, girl with great big love bite on her neck, general look of "not very nice people", likely trouble makers....you get the idea.
Whilst my description may make you uncomfortable, I very much doubt that you'd be happy to invite them into your home!
Just yesterday I was walking through the hotel (which also has a golf club) to the pool and a chap in his sixties or thereabouts refused to wear a mask when prompted by staff and instead just lifted a paper tissue vaguely over his mouth which he then took down as soon as he was round the corner and out of sight of reception.
Of course though, it would be crazy of me to assume that based on those spoiled and selfish older people that all people in their seventies and eighties are also spoiled and selfish and ignoring the Covid guidance/rules, wouldn't it?