I think there are a lot of people in church communities that don't believe. I have met quite a few, someone close to me has been a regular chuch goes all her life (over 80 now) and confided she did not believe a word of it. A lot of people are born into a faith and don't get a choice, if they leave the get ostrasized by friends and family. I know a priest who is now a confirmed atheist. One can be a non believer and still have friends in the church and be a decent person. Athiests are not evil as the church frequently paints them.
Nothing personal Josusa, just felt the need to proselytise against proselytism. Don't know why you assume it's atheists disagreeing with you though - atheism is just as evidence-blind as religion.
What's going on here is mature and sensitive discussion of the human condition. Banging on about people on crosses doesn't add an awful lot to it, even though I'm sure you mean well and have plenty to add, as a person, rather than a "believer".
@Pansyface - I take on board your comments about pre-existing conditions that may preclude organ donation. I also applaud you for agreeing to your father's body for dissection. I hope that times have well and truly changed. When MIL died some 25 years ago, we were asked if her body could be used for medical students (she had had a heart problem). It was agreed. A bill for the "service" of that very dissection was sent to the undertaker, and paid by FIL as part of the undertaker's overall invoice! It was outrageous - but the explanation was that a dead body was not covered by the NHS. At a time of grieving, FIL had no appetite to contest it.
There has been some recent discussions here of an opt out system for organ donation. Myself, I think it is the only way to go.....the fact that perfectly healthy organs are not removed from dead bodies to give the possibility of a new life/better health and quality of life to another living human is wasteful and repugnant.
There has been some recent discussions here of an opt out system for organ donation. Myself, I think it is the only way to go.....the fact that perfectly healthy organs are not removed from dead bodies to give the possibility of a new life/better health and quality of life to another living human is wasteful and repugnant.
I disagree. When I go ALL of me goes. I may sound selfish, but that is my opinion and my other half knows this. It is recorded on a video, on a memory card, along with all the other decisions I have made regarding my end of life.
The problem with organ donation, is that the majority of organs come from the patients who have had severe head injuries and there is often very little time to obtain consent and harvest the organs, before they are no longer of use. I spent much of my life, asking the relatives of such people, whether we could use their organs. Even amongst the carriers of organ donor cards, their was a 30% refusal, this was often due to the severe trauma that the families themselves were going through. Personally I am a great believer in the opt out system, but many colleagues are justifiably concerned, that it would only take one case, where organs to be removed from someone who was shown to be an objector, to seriously harm future donation. I worry that it is being looked at far too simplistically by some people, without consideration of the consequences. To give a tiny inkling of the difficulties faced on the ground, I had once obtained permission to remove organs from a patient, only to be told at the last moment, that the organs had to go to someone of a certain colour. I had to decline the offer of donation.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
I take the view that if you would be willing to accept a donor organ to save your life then you should be willing for your organs to be used after death.
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What's going on here is mature and sensitive discussion of the human condition. Banging on about people on crosses doesn't add an awful lot to it, even though I'm sure you mean well and have plenty to add, as a person, rather than a "believer".
I spent much of my life, asking the relatives of such people, whether we could use their organs.
Even amongst the carriers of organ donor cards, their was a 30% refusal, this was often due to the severe trauma that the families themselves were going through.
Personally I am a great believer in the opt out system, but many colleagues are justifiably concerned, that it would only take one case, where organs to be removed from someone who was shown to be an objector, to seriously harm future donation.
I worry that it is being looked at far too simplistically by some people, without consideration of the consequences.
To give a tiny inkling of the difficulties faced on the ground, I had once obtained permission to remove organs from a patient, only to be told at the last moment, that the organs had to go to someone of a certain colour.
I had to decline the offer of donation.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
I have known people whose lives have been absolutely transformed by a transplant.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border