I have also been reflecting this last week about reasons the medical professionals and the BMA might be very worried about lobbying to change legislation. Fundamental changes in the rules about facilitating life and death would, I imagine, open the medical world to a whole cosmos of new litigation. If change comes, you can be sure there will be an array of companies suddenly formed to sue for malpractice. Even more ambulance chasers. If such big decisions come down to doctors' discretion (in law) they open themselves up to brutal scrutiny - from upset family, media, those on the make.
Was able to get my late husband's POA signed when he was diagnosed with Alzheimers and did mine at the same time, 14 years ago. Having POA makes everything so much easier to deal with.
Unfortunately for us @Joyce21 we were unable to do that for my dad as he was deemed unfit to decide after his sudden diagnosis. Needless to say we have all been banging the drum about POA ever since. My dad wasn't going to die. He was going to be here in death sorting everything out as he had in life. He often said " if anything ever happens to me" If? Really? So you're the first true immortal dad? There would be no talk of POA (he was a control freak and no-one was having power over his affairs) or death or dying.... With the result we just had to guess. Did he want cremated? I hope so because he's still in the bottom of the wardrobe in an urn. What music? What service??? No idea. The one thing I am sure of is that he will be scattered with my mum. He worshipped her. I'm not sure if that's what she wants. Mum and I have discussed her wishes on a few occasions but not the specifics. That'll happen in the next few days and I'll do mine at the same time for the next lot coming behind.
Having POA makes everything so much easier to deal with.
I couldn't agree more Joyce. We both did ours a long time ago and when my husband was diagnosed with Alzheimers I took over dealing with everything. When he died it made everything so much more straightforward. Can't remember the exact wording without looking it up but now, if I lose the ability to deal with things, my children can take over.
I realise now that my initial response to Pansyfaces first post,was to balk at the word"euthanasia" I seem more able to cope with" End of life care" I apologize to you for that Pansyface. I genuinely think it's great that we can discuss anything and everything on this forum.
The whole truth is an instrument that can only be played by an expert.
"My dad wasn't going to die. He was going to be here in death sorting
everything out as he had in life. He often said " if anything ever
happens to me" If? Really? So you're the first true immortal dad? There
would be no talk of POA (he was a control freak and no-one was having
power over his affairs) or death or dying.... With the result we just
had to guess. Did he want cremated? I hope so because he's still in the
bottom of the wardrobe in an urn. What music? What service??? No idea."
I've just been going through exactly that - last week and this (and arguing for the last twenty years). The 'immortal' died and I am left with the mess and the guess work. There is a surprising amount of anger and irritability coming up for me - as most of this hoo ha could have been easily avoided and made so much more straight forward. I have had a long term illness, but this didn't seem to make a dent in his cheerful denial.
He's gone and it's done now, but it certainly would have got very difficult if he had stayed in a coma longer term at the end and I had no right to manage his bank accounts or his housing situation. I dread to think (and have dreaded for twenty years) how I would have coped with all that.
@Fire we as humans are amazing at coping and getting things done through all sorts of crisis'..........often it is after the crisis is over, that we sit back and digest everything. I'm sure you have done your dad proud. Both my parents, they are in their 70's, have all the details of what they want to happen when they die written down, down to the songs to be played. I find it comforting to know what they want and have no problem with this or talking about their death or mine.........my sibling however cannot deal with it on any level. She just walks away and wants no part of the discussion. My family also know what my wishes are, my eldest hates talking about death and dying, but it is an event we will all go through. As crematoriums are relatively new in Ireland, and becoming more popular, we recently changed dad's plan as he now wishes to be cremated.
We as humans are amazing at coping and getting things done through all
sorts of crisis'..........often it is after the crisis is over, that we
sit back and digest everything. I'm sure you have done your dad proud.
Yes, I agree that we often cope with the most unimagined stuff, I recently spent a full two years sorting out the vast mess my mother left. I have no desire to dedicate more of my short life to further avoidable crises.
I did get my parents to make wills but not long before they died. The main reason was because it’s never a good idea for each of them to leave their half to the spouse, which is what they always thought was the right and proper thing to do, fortunately we got those done.
As grave diggers, undertakers helpers, headstone makers and restorers we see quite a lot of grief, we are always almost certain that planning your own funeral to save your children the worry is not a very good idea, it’s the last thing the children can do and it’s nicer if they can choose everything, doesn’t matter much to the deceased, they’ve gone. Of course you’re not going to choose the Rolling Stones if father was a classics fan. When both my parents died, myself and my two children had a nice talk about what we’d like to hear and we all chose some music or a song.
When it’s all planned beforehand, the children can feel sort of helpless not being able to do anything for the send off. Maybe some people would like that, saves them thinking about anything.
As for these pre paid plans, I’m not even mentioning those!
Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor.
I have also been reflecting this last week about reasons the medical professionals and the BMA might be very worried about lobbying to change legislation. Fundamental changes in the rules about facilitating life and death would, I imagine, open the medical world to a whole cosmos of new litigation. If change comes, you can be sure there will be an array of companies suddenly formed to sue for malpractice. Even more ambulance chasers. If such big decisions come down to doctors' discretion (in law) they open themselves up to brutal scrutiny - from upset family, media, those on the make.
Looking at these issues I think your quite right to be cautious but the issues can be overcome. I would advocate that Dr's (and nurses) should have the right to opt out of such decisions - on ethical grounds (I would also advocate for this to be the case in abortion and ECT). As an example, with mental health legislation for longer denentions an independent Dr must support the correctness of a decision. This doctor must not be part of the team treating the patient and wishing to detain. There is also a system of appeals supervised by a legal tribunal headed by a judge and including a consultant a social worker and relevent witnesses. Relatives can appeal a decision. Where there is an appeal a tribunal is set up, headed by a judge.
A similar (but not identical) system could be set up, where a person, relative or medical team might advocate for the decision but this decision would then be overseen by independent bodies and a tribunal where required.
We already have a Mental Capacity Act which is legislation to determine whether a person is mentally fit to make certain decisions. In these cases the decision making process would have to be as watertight as possible and every effort made to respect the wishes of the patient. Consideration should be given to the question of undue influence by third parties on the patients decision and this specifically excluded. Special consideration should be given to mental health issues and to the gravity of the condition and its effect on the wellbeing of the client.
It's a very difficult area, but this should not make us ignore the terrible and extremem suffering that an individual might wish to avoid. We should also remember that about half the population is secular in it's views - for them at least God has no say.
Posts
Having POA makes everything so much easier to deal with.
My dad wasn't going to die. He was going to be here in death sorting everything out as he had in life. He often said " if anything ever happens to me" If? Really? So you're the first true immortal dad? There would be no talk of POA (he was a control freak and no-one was having power over his affairs) or death or dying.... With the result we just had to guess. Did he want cremated? I hope so because he's still in the bottom of the wardrobe in an urn. What music? What service??? No idea. The one thing I am sure of is that he will be scattered with my mum. He worshipped her. I'm not sure if that's what she wants.
Yes, I agree that we often cope with the most unimagined stuff, I recently spent a full two years sorting out the vast mess my mother left. I have no desire to dedicate more of my short life to further avoidable crises.
As grave diggers, undertakers helpers, headstone makers and restorers we see quite a lot of grief, we are always almost certain that planning your own funeral to save your children the worry is not a very good idea, it’s the last thing the children can do and it’s nicer if they can choose everything, doesn’t matter much to the deceased, they’ve gone.
Of course you’re not going to choose the Rolling Stones if father was a classics fan.
When both my parents died, myself and my two children had a nice talk about what we’d like to hear and we all chose some music or a song.
When it’s all planned beforehand, the children can feel sort of helpless not being able to do anything for the send off. Maybe some people would like that, saves them thinking about anything.
As for these pre paid plans, I’m not even mentioning those!
Looking at these issues I think your quite right to be cautious but the issues can be overcome. I would advocate that Dr's (and nurses) should have the right to opt out of such decisions - on ethical grounds (I would also advocate for this to be the case in abortion and ECT).
As an example, with mental health legislation for longer denentions an independent Dr must support the correctness of a decision. This doctor must not be part of the team treating the patient and wishing to detain. There is also a system of appeals supervised by a legal tribunal headed by a judge and including a consultant a social worker and relevent witnesses. Relatives can appeal a decision. Where there is an appeal a tribunal is set up, headed by a judge.
A similar (but not identical) system could be set up, where a person, relative or medical team might advocate for the decision but this decision would then be overseen by independent bodies and a tribunal where required.
We already have a Mental Capacity Act which is legislation to determine whether a person is mentally fit to make certain decisions. In these cases the decision making process would have to be as watertight as possible and every effort made to respect the wishes of the patient. Consideration should be given to the question of undue influence by third parties on the patients decision and this specifically excluded. Special consideration should be given to mental health issues and to the gravity of the condition and its effect on the wellbeing of the client.
It's a very difficult area, but this should not make us ignore the terrible and extremem suffering that an individual might wish to avoid. We should also remember that about half the population is secular in it's views - for them at least God has no say.