Last year I undertook a new gardening venture for an 'older fella' in his late 70's ; more of a favour than a regular commitment . His deceased wife apparently had a penchant for alpine plants in her heyday ; he didn't know much about them but just appreciated them for what they were , probably for sentimental reasons . Upon my first visit , he asked me to ID four particular plants which (were) or still are growing on a raised scree-bed in the centre of the lawn .
Imagine my surprise when these four turned out to be:- 1) Jeffersonia (Plagiorhegma) dubia (Twinleaf) 2)Sanguinaria canadensis 'Flore Pleno' (Bloodroot) 3)Phyteuma humile 4)Soldanella pusilla plus other more common species .
Now comes the question :- I havn't been since late-Autumn 2017 due to weather and other jobs ; I've had a message recently that he died last month ! What would you do ?...... he has no immediate family , the bungalow is already on the market , and there's a strong possibility that it will be bought by newcomers with no knowledge of these kind of plants . I am due to visit again to 'tidy-up' whilst the property sells (which won't be long) ! Do I do the ghoulish thing and take these plants to preserve them? Is it more moral to leave them to face probable destruction ? He was a very nice 'fella' who would most likely have wanted these beautiful plants to be looked after , but his unexpected demise has created an awkward situation .
What to do??? Any opinions will be appreciated ! I don't feel like I'm robbing the dead , but the thought of those species being destroyed probably to make space for a hideous trampoline or something like is not pleasant .
No family? Who arranged the funeral?
I’m sure there is someone to talk to and legitimise your pragmatic proposal.
Have since been in contact with a good friend of his (who apparently arranged the funeral) ; knew him for many many years ; he has since told me that the gentleman involved (deceased) would undoubtedly have been pleased for his wifes plants to have been given a chance of survival. I'm going to his property on Monday ; this makes me feel marginally better , but it will seem strangely quiet without our familiar and friendly chats about plants and birds ; (he was an ornithologist also) . A sad loss to the local community !
Have since been in contact with a good friend of his (who apparently arranged the funeral) ; knew him for many many years ; he has since told me that the gentleman involved (deceased) would undoubtedly have been pleased for his wifes plants to have been given a chance of survival. I'm going to his property on Monday ; this makes me feel marginally better , but it will seem strangely quiet without our familiar and friendly chats about plants and birds ; (he was an ornithologist also) . A sad loss to the local community !
Well, in the absence of any other avenue that would be good enough for me. Sometimes, particular around death, we just have to be pragmatic.
Taking someone's ornaments and taking a part of a plant the remainder of which may very well grow better for the division may be technically the same thing but it really isn't the same thing. If the lady who's garden it was had been still in residence, she very probably would have been dividing her plants in spring in order to keep them vigorous and healthy and giving away the divisions. The new owners are not deprived of the opportunity to enjoy the plants - they are still there.
I agree it would be presumptuous to just assume that the new owners will not appreciate or care for the plants - they may well do and I didn't and wouldn't say it's OK to just dig up the plants and take them away entirely. As long as the plants are still there and in good health then there's no loss of property or value to the 'estate', which is not true if you take the mantelpiece clock. If the estate agent is a gardener, he probably will say yes if asked, but if - most likely - he's not, he'll give the safe answer of no because he won't want the responsibility. Anyone else asked very likely will as well, unless the deceased owners have garden savvy offspring. Had I been asked by the chap looking after my Mum's garden if he could take some cuttings or divisions of her plants, I would have been entirely happy for him to do so. The original plants are no worse for this - and probably better in fact.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
... Had I been asked .... I would have been entirely happy for him to do so. ...
That's a gift ... not asking and taking is theft ... plain and simple, whether it's a plant or an old lady's jewellery from her dressing table drawer.
Is it ok to take a chocolate bar without paying from Tesco but not ok to take a mobile phone from the same place?
I just don't get it ... who would be your preferred next door neighbour ... someone who thinks it's ok to help themselves to someone else's property or someone who has a proper moral compass ?
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
... Had I been asked .... I would have been entirely happy for him to do so. ...
That's a gift ... not asking and taking is theft ... plain and simple, whether it's a plant or an old lady's jewellery from her dressing table drawer.
Is it ok to take a chocolate bar without paying from Tesco but not ok to take a mobile phone from the same place?
I just don't get it ... who would be your preferred next door neighbour ... someone who thinks it's ok to help themselves to someone else's property or someone who has a proper moral compass ?
I think you're getting hung up on this being theft. I can see your point but your analogies are very skewed. Tesco clearly own those items, they have value to them and clear ownership. If you asked Tesco if you could have them for safe keeping they'd give you an answer probably ending in "...off".
Let me ask you this: If the garden had a pond with fish and Paul fed them while the house was empty to stop them dying would that be morally wrong? If the house didn't sell for a long time and he took the fish somewhere else to make sure they were looked after would that be theft? If the previous owners had a dog no one would bat an eyelid if it was taken to a shelter instead of left to die. Are the RSPCA thieves for doing that sort of thing? Or should estate agents look after pets as well as property in case the new owners want them?
It's clearly a very divisive point and an interesting debate. I don't see it as being the same as people who take cuttings from plants in garden centres or even from gardens that are clearly being maintained. Those all have ownership and aren't at risk.
I'd say to do this in the most moral way (assuming there is no one to ask for permission) Paul should ideally take cuttings and leave the rest of the plant in place. Alternatively he could take the plants and replace them with appropriate subsitutes so the area still appears attractive. He seems willing to propagate the plants and there is always the chance that he could offer the new owners some of the new plants if it turns out that they are gardeners. As he was asked previously to look after the garden then this seems ok to me and a valid excuse if they ask. The house has obviously been cleared for sale so any interested relatives have had the chance to reclaim anything they want from the property.
In the past I've taken plants from building sites before they were bulldozed and offered cuttings back to the new owners after the project was finished. Quite often they are thrilled that someone cared enough to take the time to do it.
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
My father had a wonderful garden that he cared for, nurtured and loved. He died and within a week of the house being sold (not by me) the garden was ripped up, gravelled and characterless - luckily I had taken a few plants before the house was sold - so glad that I did - the new owners ripped out all the character in the house too - broke my heart. Needless to say Paul I totally agree that you should take the plants that you want before the house changes hands, but if you are at all concerned then ask the estate agents, mentioning that you have been caring for the garden.
Thankyou all for the supportive answers (and the not so supportive) !! I don't know of many gardeners who havn't , at some stage in their lives , discreetly helped themselves to a cutting , or a bulb or just a piece of root to grow-on themselves (not literally) . At a park in Nottingham a few years ago , council workers were clearing shrubs permanently from a large border to make way for a 'bedding scheme'(!) ; in the heap was a very dried out and forlorn looking Clerodendron trichotomum ; I picked up a root of which as I walked past (they hadn't a clue what it was) .There was no-one around anyway , so I brought it back home and potted it up . Three-years later it is a stunning specimen ; now I ask myself :- "Was that theft or saving a plant from the bonfire" ? Sometimes it pays to put morals to one side , especially where plants are concerned .
Posts
I'm going to his property on Monday ; this makes me feel marginally better , but it will seem strangely quiet without our familiar and friendly chats about plants and birds ; (he was an ornithologist also) .
A sad loss to the local community !
I agree it would be presumptuous to just assume that the new owners will not appreciate or care for the plants - they may well do and I didn't and wouldn't say it's OK to just dig up the plants and take them away entirely. As long as the plants are still there and in good health then there's no loss of property or value to the 'estate', which is not true if you take the mantelpiece clock. If the estate agent is a gardener, he probably will say yes if asked, but if - most likely - he's not, he'll give the safe answer of no because he won't want the responsibility. Anyone else asked very likely will as well, unless the deceased owners have garden savvy offspring. Had I been asked by the chap looking after my Mum's garden if he could take some cuttings or divisions of her plants, I would have been entirely happy for him to do so. The original plants are no worse for this - and probably better in fact.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Is it ok to take a chocolate bar without paying from Tesco but not ok to take a mobile phone from the same place?
I just don't get it ... who would be your preferred next door neighbour ... someone who thinks it's ok to help themselves to someone else's property or someone who has a proper moral compass ?
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Let me ask you this: If the garden had a pond with fish and Paul fed them while the house was empty to stop them dying would that be morally wrong? If the house didn't sell for a long time and he took the fish somewhere else to make sure they were looked after would that be theft? If the previous owners had a dog no one would bat an eyelid if it was taken to a shelter instead of left to die. Are the RSPCA thieves for doing that sort of thing? Or should estate agents look after pets as well as property in case the new owners want them?
It's clearly a very divisive point and an interesting debate. I don't see it as being the same as people who take cuttings from plants in garden centres or even from gardens that are clearly being maintained. Those all have ownership and aren't at risk.
I'd say to do this in the most moral way (assuming there is no one to ask for permission) Paul should ideally take cuttings and leave the rest of the plant in place. Alternatively he could take the plants and replace them with appropriate subsitutes so the area still appears attractive. He seems willing to propagate the plants and there is always the chance that he could offer the new owners some of the new plants if it turns out that they are gardeners. As he was asked previously to look after the garden then this seems ok to me and a valid excuse if they ask. The house has obviously been cleared for sale so any interested relatives have had the chance to reclaim anything they want from the property.
In the past I've taken plants from building sites before they were bulldozed and offered cuttings back to the new owners after the project was finished. Quite often they are thrilled that someone cared enough to take the time to do it.
I don't know of many gardeners who havn't , at some stage in their lives , discreetly helped themselves to a cutting , or a bulb or just a piece of root to grow-on themselves (not literally) .
At a park in Nottingham a few years ago , council workers were clearing shrubs permanently from a large border to make way for a 'bedding scheme'(!) ; in the heap was a very dried out and forlorn looking Clerodendron trichotomum ; I picked up a root of which as I walked past (they hadn't a clue what it was) .There was no-one around anyway , so I brought it back home and potted it up .
Three-years later it is a stunning specimen ; now I ask myself :- "Was that theft or saving a plant from the bonfire" ?
Sometimes it pays to put morals to one side , especially where plants are concerned .