Very interesting conversations obviously mainly by the younger section of this board who never knew the horror of being virtually undefended when WW2 started, or the six long traumatic years followed by another six of Austerity, all that because our leaders underestimated what the Germans would or could do. As to our treatment of people who came here after the war ended we had a good right to be aware or insular as some would say. Among the first prisoners brought off the D Day beaches were lots of European nationals, some may well have been forced into doing what they did but many were not. We had large POW camps in the area and saw many of those POW's as they were put to work in local industry, rebuilding and food production. We knew many of the Polish men captured in German uniform could not go back, they in time were accepted into the community but it took time. You cannot blame the people of this country after what they had gone through.
There must be others out there who saw the Middle east and the turmoil caused by us Brits leaving suddenly during the ending of the mandate and what happened next. Others who were also right up against the East German border during the cold war knowing had the War begun the orders were hold for four days then the Americans will stop it??? What did that mean we asked? guess said the Officer.
The NHS is a far cry from the Half Crown Doctor when the death toll in children was horrific, NHS were a Godsend. The time has come to take politics out of the NHS and for it to be Nationally funded the same as we fund the forces and other institutions. My experience of hospitals over the last four years was Dedicated and fully involved people working long hours for poor payment, the storm troopers who as always are in the front line. I know with the Army it took 75 men to put 25 anywhere near the front line and I believe that is the same with the NHS, in gardening terms a lot of pruning is needed.
A few more points from my 35 year experience in the NHS.
A lot of money is wasted, but even if all that money was saved, it would be nowhere near enough to patch up the gaps.
As you mention, most staff are wonderful and work very hard, my average week was about 70 hours. There are however no where near enough of them, and no where near enough beds.
It takes about 15 years to train someone like me, from starting at medical school, to becoming a consultant, so the shortage will not be addressed any time soon..
It is a popular myth that there are far to many managers. I was in charge of a department of 16 consultants, many junior doctors and 120 nurses. I had 3 management staff to help me.
I maintain that part of the solution, must involve doing less.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
Perhaps there could be the equivalent of a kidney donor card that could indicate you wishes if you developed advanced Alzheimer's disease or a terminal illness.
Obviously there would need to be safeguards at all stages.
Punkdoc. I do not question your experience in running departments or that they are the area's overstaffed, look at the whole set up. My Daughter has worked for years as a PA to the head surgeon of our local hospital and tells me the waste is horrendous. Rooms of secretaries some who think their day comprises doing their nails talking about the night before and even calling in sick on any pretence. I was amazed at the numbers of none essential staff as each time I was sent for scans or other examinations two men turned up even when it was movement by Wheel Chair, two men for a bed move would be OK but two for a chair? When a patient left Hospital the ward Nurse stripped the bed and then we got two to wash the floor and furniture, then two more to clean the mattress then two more to wipe down the bed frame, six people for one space then the ward nurse remade the bed. A pill box fell off the wall, two men came and looked at it taking notes, (Pill Box four dowels four screws) hours later three men arrived one to hold the box one to replace the screws and one to flirt with very busy ward staff had I as a Manager at ICI manned the job like that my service would have been very short indeed.
My first Hospital experience pre NHS you bused and walked into Hospital, you were on a general ward where everyone came under the eye of Matron who ran the wards like a military unit. They all knew their jobs from cleaners to ward staff and at the end you walked out and the bus home. We all of us expect too much. There are times as in my last illness in August a Doctor visiting the home could say stay in your own bed with medication or as with me the Doctor can process you straight through to the assessment ward and from there onto a ward or back home, I ended up on the ward, at least the system weeds out those needing A&E at the cost of one young Doctor visiting the patient instead of a costly Ambulance plus busy two or even three man crew. The whole system needs reworking and soon.
I once had great fun explaining that expression to my Belgian scientists in English conversation. Being a) government employees with unbelievable levels of management and b)) Belgian with unbelievable levels of bureaucracy in all aspects of civil administration they loved it but, strangely, had no Belgian or Walloon equivalent.
My experience over 25 years of the Belgian health system is that it is generally far more efficient and more joined up in its organisation and delivery of health care and, more importantly, one can choose which doctor/nurse/specialist/hospital to go to except in the case of emergencies when you go where the ambulance takes you.
Last edited: 07 January 2018 10:31:41
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
"Perhaps there could be the equivalent of a kidney donor card that could indicate you wishes if you developed advanced Alzheimer's disease or a terminal illness.
Obviously there would need to be safeguards at all stages."
Check out the 'Dying in Dignity' campaign that is trying to change the law to allow the right to die for those with terminal illnesses so they don't have to make the trip to Dignitas and end their life before they have to. One has to be suitably fit and able to fly anywhere.
Other countries have trail-blazed the way with suitable safeguards.
Unfortunately certain bronze, iron and early feudal belief systems are against the proposal along with some other well meaning groups.
Posts
My work colleague bought me a 1litre bottle of Absolut Vodka at Xmas ; think I'll lighten its load tonight .
Soaking Bank Holiday Monday ; got saturated on Tuesday ; rained off by gales on Wednesday and storms on Thursday ; Friday bloody freezing !
Not been a good week workwise !
Cheers
.
Very interesting conversations obviously mainly by the younger section of this board who never knew the horror of being virtually undefended when WW2 started, or the six long traumatic years followed by another six of Austerity, all that because our leaders underestimated what the Germans would or could do. As to our treatment of people who came here after the war ended we had a good right to be aware or insular as some would say. Among the first prisoners brought off the D Day beaches were lots of European nationals, some may well have been forced into doing what they did but many were not. We had large POW camps in the area and saw many of those POW's as they were put to work in local industry, rebuilding and food production. We knew many of the Polish men captured in German uniform could not go back, they in time were accepted into the community but it took time. You cannot blame the people of this country after what they had gone through.
There must be others out there who saw the Middle east and the turmoil caused by us Brits leaving suddenly during the ending of the mandate and what happened next. Others who were also right up against the East German border during the cold war knowing had the War begun the orders were hold for four days then the Americans will stop it??? What did that mean we asked? guess said the Officer.
The NHS is a far cry from the Half Crown Doctor when the death toll in children was horrific, NHS were a Godsend. The time has come to take politics out of the NHS and for it to be Nationally funded the same as we fund the forces and other institutions. My experience of hospitals over the last four years was Dedicated and fully involved people working long hours for poor payment, the storm troopers who as always are in the front line. I know with the Army it took 75 men to put 25 anywhere near the front line and I believe that is the same with the NHS, in gardening terms a lot of pruning is needed.
Frank.
A few more points from my 35 year experience in the NHS.
A lot of money is wasted, but even if all that money was saved, it would be nowhere near enough to patch up the gaps.
As you mention, most staff are wonderful and work very hard, my average week was about 70 hours. There are however no where near enough of them, and no where near enough beds.
It takes about 15 years to train someone like me, from starting at medical school, to becoming a consultant, so the shortage will not be addressed any time soon..
It is a popular myth that there are far to many managers. I was in charge of a department of 16 consultants, many junior doctors and 120 nurses. I had 3 management staff to help me.
I maintain that part of the solution, must involve doing less.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Perhaps there could be the equivalent of a kidney donor card that could indicate you wishes if you developed advanced Alzheimer's disease or a terminal illness.
Obviously there would need to be safeguards at all stages.
Punkdoc. I do not question your experience in running departments or that they are the area's overstaffed, look at the whole set up. My Daughter has worked for years as a PA to the head surgeon of our local hospital and tells me the waste is horrendous. Rooms of secretaries some who think their day comprises doing their nails talking about the night before and even calling in sick on any pretence. I was amazed at the numbers of none essential staff as each time I was sent for scans or other examinations two men turned up even when it was movement by Wheel Chair, two men for a bed move would be OK but two for a chair? When a patient left Hospital the ward Nurse stripped the bed and then we got two to wash the floor and furniture, then two more to clean the mattress then two more to wipe down the bed frame, six people for one space then the ward nurse remade the bed. A pill box fell off the wall, two men came and looked at it taking notes, (Pill Box four dowels four screws) hours later three men arrived one to hold the box one to replace the screws and one to flirt with very busy ward staff had I as a Manager at ICI manned the job like that my service would have been very short indeed.
My first Hospital experience pre NHS you bused and walked into Hospital, you were on a general ward where everyone came under the eye of Matron who ran the wards like a military unit. They all knew their jobs from cleaners to ward staff and at the end you walked out and the bus home. We all of us expect too much. There are times as in my last illness in August a Doctor visiting the home could say stay in your own bed with medication or as with me the Doctor can process you straight through to the assessment ward and from there onto a ward or back home, I ended up on the ward, at least the system weeds out those needing A&E at the cost of one young Doctor visiting the patient instead of a costly Ambulance plus busy two or even three man crew. The whole system needs reworking and soon.
Frank.
I once had great fun explaining that expression to my Belgian scientists in English conversation. Being a) government employees with unbelievable levels of management and b)) Belgian with unbelievable levels of bureaucracy in all aspects of civil administration they loved it but, strangely, had no Belgian or Walloon equivalent.
My experience over 25 years of the Belgian health system is that it is generally far more efficient and more joined up in its organisation and delivery of health care and, more importantly, one can choose which doctor/nurse/specialist/hospital to go to except in the case of emergencies when you go where the ambulance takes you.
Last edited: 07 January 2018 10:31:41
@B3
"Perhaps there could be the equivalent of a kidney donor card that could indicate you wishes if you developed advanced Alzheimer's disease or a terminal illness.
Obviously there would need to be safeguards at all stages."
Check out the 'Dying in Dignity' campaign that is trying to change the law to allow the right to die for those with terminal illnesses so they don't have to make the trip to Dignitas and end their life before they have to. One has to be suitably fit and able to fly anywhere.
Other countries have trail-blazed the way with suitable safeguards.
Unfortunately certain bronze, iron and early feudal belief systems are against the proposal along with some other well meaning groups.
Britain is behind the curve on this one.
Last edited: 07 January 2018 14:04:35