Not really. Land Registration is a new system ................. of that land.
I was presuming that the property had changed hands since the Land Registration became the way of doing things and any pre-existing RoWs would have then been registered (my experience goes right back to when I was preparing Extracts of deeds on crumbling vellum and parchment ) but in any case I think I return to my original option of continuing with the status quo.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Everybody involved is now obviously more aware and informed about the law around ROW's etc and what is happening and what could happen in future. Everybody agrees it was so much better not knowing.
If we carry on as is and I decide not to formally submit my claim to a ROW but hang onto the documents just in case then in 8yrs a neighbour could claim a 40yr prescriptive ROW themselves and so on over the years until all properties achieve the same 40yr requirement.
Then everybody will be able to claim an ROW. The latest new neighbour would have to wait 39yrs! (Previous owner has died) so no past prescriptive years can be claimed by the new owner.
...........Thinking this through as I type one option suggested is that we all agree to and sign what is called a "Deed Of Extinguishment" even those that can't prove / claim an ROW now. It may be possible that a property in future may discover and somehow prove they have an ROW in future so having a "Deed Of Extinguishment" in place stops this from happening in future.
My brain can't cope with grey areas, I much prefer everything to be clear (black and White) so quietly hanging on to these documents without making a formal claim now just in case I may need them in future will do my head in and forever be on the minds of my neighbours too.... not fair to anybody.
So within my own mind I claim it and use it or loose it forever but doing so knowing that nobody can ever challenge and reopen the ROW in future, ever. This would have to be a condition.
At the mo I'm leaning towards complete closure by way of a "Deed Of Extinguishment" by everybody but what a HUGE shame as we will all loose such a lot along the way
Fair enoughIf you chose to formally and legally extinguish the RoW it doesn't stop you all agreeing to permit others to cross your gardens amongst yourselves. You would simply be closing the door on anyone being able to demand that right against the wishes of the owner.I think
Last edited: 22 September 2016 12:00:30
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
"what a HUGE shame as we will all loose such a lot along the way "
Clearly I'm a very stupid person,but what exactly will you all lose?
As has been pointed out before, if you decide to sell, any neighbour disputes ( which I'm sure will arise if you go ahead with the ROW) must, by law, be disclosed. Surely if the whole thing is done away with, no dispute will arise?
If you have to tell prospective buyers about disputes, it will, I fear devalue your property, if not render it very difficult to sell. Would you buy a house embroiled with legal acrimony among the neighbours?
All properties have gone through "First Registration" within land registry's electronic system.
For whatever reason when I bought my property and the property went through this process of "First Registration" and all past documents were presented the solicitors and or land registry overlooked or ignored my "Deed Of Grant dated 1952".
All properties have employed solicitors and have researched and looked for proof of ROW's etc etc and this process has come to fruition with no way forward except the law courts and its clear that nobody wants to go that far.
Nobody can claim or wants to pursue a claim any further without going to the courts. I can / do have an ROW if I want it, but do I?
The question is do I submit a claim to land registry, hold on to the documents for potential future use or loose them on the signing and submission of a "Dead Of Extinguishment" by all involved
At this moment we are all locked into a dispute but a neighbour dispute come to an end when an agreement is found and therefore no longer exists. So your no longer in dispute with your neighbours so on selling a property you no longer have a dispute that requires declaring.
We will share our gardens, we often get together socially within someone's garden on a regular basis. I often take a cup of coffee with me into next doors but one for a chat in the garden. That 10 minute cup of coffee often takes a couple of hours on a nice day.
You clearly do not need a ROW. Your neighbours don't like the idea of having one formalised as it may devalue their property. If you do hang on to it it has to be declared if you sell in the future and the resulting problems may well devalue your property and/or make it harder to sell.
Go for peace of mind and good relations and drop the whole thing officially.
Seems obvious to me and everyone who's responded. Just need to make up your own mind now and get on with it either way.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Decided that the best thing to do for everybody involved is to get everybody to close this ROW permanently. I know that everybody will agree to it.
But what a great shame though as everybody is going to loose so much as a result.
All because a new neighbour had nothing better to do with himself and he has admitted that he should of just mixed in and left it alone accepted it as it was for what it was.... A Pleasure to all those that used it!
He'll probably put his house up for sale in new the year and move on too, you watch.
I'll try to organise one last garden party for everybody before its formally closed
Posts
I was presuming that the property had changed hands since the Land Registration became the way of doing things and any pre-existing RoWs would have then been registered (my experience goes right back to when I was preparing Extracts of deeds on crumbling vellum and parchment
) but in any case I think I return to my original option of continuing with the status quo.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Everybody involved is now obviously more aware and informed about the law around ROW's etc and what is happening and what could happen in future. Everybody agrees it was so much better not knowing.
If we carry on as is and I decide not to formally submit my claim to a ROW but hang onto the documents just in case then in 8yrs a neighbour could claim a 40yr prescriptive ROW themselves and so on over the years until all properties achieve the same 40yr requirement.
Then everybody will be able to claim an ROW. The latest new neighbour would have to wait 39yrs! (Previous owner has died) so no past prescriptive years can be claimed by the new owner.
...........Thinking this through as I type one option suggested is that we all agree to and sign what is called a "Deed Of Extinguishment" even those that can't prove / claim an ROW now. It may be possible that a property in future may discover and somehow prove they have an ROW in future so having a "Deed Of Extinguishment" in place stops this from happening in future.
My brain can't cope with grey areas, I much prefer everything to be clear (black and White) so quietly hanging on to these documents without making a formal claim now just in case I may need them in future will do my head in and forever be on the minds of my neighbours too.... not fair to anybody.
So within my own mind I claim it and use it or loose it forever but doing so knowing that nobody can ever challenge and reopen the ROW in future, ever. This would have to be a condition.
At the mo I'm leaning towards complete closure by way of a "Deed Of Extinguishment" by everybody but what a HUGE shame as we will all loose such a lot along the way
Last edited: 22 September 2016 12:00:30
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
"what a HUGE shame as we will all loose such a lot along the way
"
Clearly I'm a very stupid person,but what exactly will you all lose?
As has been pointed out before, if you decide to sell, any neighbour disputes ( which I'm sure will arise if you go ahead with the ROW) must, by law, be disclosed. Surely if the whole thing is done away with, no dispute will arise?
If you have to tell prospective buyers about disputes, it will, I fear devalue your property, if not render it very difficult to sell. Would you buy a house embroiled with legal acrimony among the neighbours?
All properties have gone through "First Registration" within land registry's electronic system.
For whatever reason when I bought my property and the property went through this process of "First Registration" and all past documents were presented the solicitors and or land registry overlooked or ignored my "Deed Of Grant dated 1952".
All properties have employed solicitors and have researched and looked for proof of ROW's etc etc and this process has come to fruition with no way forward except the law courts and its clear that nobody wants to go that far.
Nobody can claim or wants to pursue a claim any further without going to the courts. I can / do have an ROW if I want it, but do I?
The question is do I submit a claim to land registry, hold on to the documents for potential future use or loose them on the signing and submission of a "Dead Of Extinguishment" by all involved
I think CC is talking about the neighbourly spirit rather than any material loss?
You can't unfind out what you all now know. You can agree to forget it in time. Probably not if you impose your legal position though
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
At this moment we are all locked into a dispute but a neighbour dispute come to an end when an agreement is found and therefore no longer exists. So your no longer in dispute with your neighbours so on selling a property you no longer have a dispute that requires declaring.
We will share our gardens, we often get together socially within someone's garden on a regular basis. I often take a cup of coffee with me into next doors but one for a chat in the garden. That 10 minute cup of coffee often takes a couple of hours on a nice day.
All sorts goes on just because spontainiously
Last edited: 22 September 2016 12:12:07
CC , only you can decide.
I'm sure I speak for many when I wish you , and your neighbours, all the best in resolving this issue.
You clearly have the answer you need already.
You clearly do not need a ROW. Your neighbours don't like the idea of having one formalised as it may devalue their property. If you do hang on to it it has to be declared if you sell in the future and the resulting problems may well devalue your property and/or make it harder to sell.
Go for peace of mind and good relations and drop the whole thing officially.
Seems obvious to me and everyone who's responded. Just need to make up your own mind now and get on with it either way.
Thank you all for your comments.
Decided that the best thing to do for everybody involved is to get everybody to close this ROW permanently. I know that everybody will agree to it.
But what a great shame though as everybody is going to loose so much as a result.
All because a new neighbour had nothing better to do with himself and he has admitted that he should of just mixed in and left it alone accepted it as it was for what it was.... A Pleasure to all those that used it!
He'll probably put his house up for sale in new the year and move on too, you watch.
I'll try to organise one last garden party for everybody before its formally closed
Last edited: 23 September 2016 17:02:34